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Subject: "Tank Scooter failed testing!"    
Conferences > Illegal and Bad Scooters > Topic #38
Reading Topic #38

Member since May-28-02
1518 posts
Jul-15-05, 11:33 AM (EDT)
"Tank Scooter failed testing!"

Despite Tank Sports good attitude and good cooperation with scooterbbs.com during the evaluation of the Tank Urban Sporty 50, we are failing it due to legal shortcomings.

First, it has no kill switch, which means it is not DOT approved. There must be a kill switch on the hand controls somewhere and that is a DOT requirement, not an option. This is in addition to the key switch kill.

Second, we were amazed at its speed. I weigh 220 lbs and it took me to 50 mph on flat surfaces easily. We have never seen a 50 cc four stroke do that. Acting on a recent tip from the EPA, we tested displacement. I encourage anyone to confirm our data. I would prefer to be proven wrong.

I had Noho Scooters check my measurements side by side with us. You can see our tests in the gallery.

The EPA has informed me that they have tested and failed a different Tank scooter model, and this has resulted in the seizure of 50 bikes, more expected to follow. Their results indicated 72cc, not 50.

Additionally, they told me that even if it WAS 50cc's, going over 25 mph would make it require EPA certification regardless of the displacement.

California Air Regulation Board has informed me that Tank DOES have CARB certificates, but only for their off road vehicles, and not for ANY on road use vehicles.

Therefore, we have no choice but to FAIL the Tank products. I would like to point out that the bike has performed well and it started instantly once re-assembled, and I have no issues with its quality to date. It rides great, starts easily and handles well. Nor do I have any issues with the people at Tank as they have been great to deal with and very knowledgeable and helpful. I will gladly update everyone if and when their status changes.

I am not able to pass them due to legal status.


unregistered user
Jul-15-05, 03:33 PM (EDT)
1. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #0
   Image from Jacar Motorsports

Jacar and other distributors have to accept the responsibility for this deception . . they sure look like a bunch of fools for not actually verifying the specifications. Sure seems like a "verify first" policy would be far superior to an "ostrich mentality".

unregistered user
Jul-15-05, 05:20 PM (EDT)
2. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #1
   Im not so sure I agree. The web ad has to come down, but I dont think many dealers take the time to disassemble bikes and measure displacement before selling.

Bryce Ludwig
Member since Dec-21-03
4441 posts
Jul-15-05, 06:59 PM (EDT)
3. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #2
   I think s/he is talking about the distributor/importer, not the dealers.

- Bryce Ludwig

unregistered user
Jul-15-05, 07:23 PM (EDT)
4. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #3
   Elliot and forum readers. Tell you guys the truth we haven’t looked at the forum for month and a half or so now. Quite frankly I am shocked and confused on the new findings. True a batch of order is being held a customs warehouse. We have are still in the dark on what’s going on in that warehouse. It seems that you have more info than we do. We have not yet heard any concrete info from customs or EPA. We were aware that the order was being held due to improper or incomplete markings on engine. So far all we know is that customs were going to “mail us more information. In the mean time just don’t call back anymore.” Any information you can give me on where you heard it from? We would like to know more.

The kill switch yes, there were certain batch of the units that the production lines used the Mexico spec rather than the US spec. initial problem occurred in march/April of this year. New sets of switches were received immediately after problem occurrence. All future products were notified to wait and modify. But the units that were already on the ship were too late to modify. They are being modified in the LA warehouse as we speak. Arrangements are in the makes with dealers that needs the buttons replaced. I am both the legal rep of Tank Sports/KTMMEX for both DOT and EPA. I take full responsibility for any injuries or problems caused by this case.

Rear swing arm welding problem. We have replaced the welder who has been making the incomplete welds. All rear swing arm on request will be replaced for free.

In regards to the engine being 72CC, this is the first time I hear about this. Give me time to do a little research into this. We will procede according to protocol and channels once more information becomes available. Tank Sports will act accordingly in each case to resolve the problem. While we are doing more research. Please be patient as more information is provided. If you need to reach me my number is on the bottom of this post.

Jim Ji



unregistered user
Jul-15-05, 09:11 PM (EDT)
5. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #4
   >Rear swing arm welding problem. We have replaced the welder
>who has been making the incomplete welds. All rear swing arm
>on request will be replaced for free.

How will you be contacting TANK owners? Do you require dealers to provide you with customer contact information so there can be a proper motor vehicle recall during these occurances? Most TANK owners don't read the BBS.

John M Stafford
Member since Jun-3-02
9072 posts
Jul-15-05, 11:09 PM (EDT)
7. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #5
   Current recalls: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/recalls/recallsearch.cfm
Ask for a recall: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

John M. Stafford

"If you want sympathy you read the wrong post."

unregistered user
Aug-03-05, 03:52 AM (EDT)
13. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #7
   where you find TANK are being recalled at this site? I can't located.

Current recalls: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/recalls/recallsearch.cfm


unregistered user
Aug-03-05, 04:53 AM (EDT)
14. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #7
   Where can you find at DOT website showing TANKs are being conficated and that "Kill Switch" is require by DOT. I can't find it.

Garth Richards
unregistered user
Jul-19-05, 09:55 PM (EDT)
11. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #4

If you have been adding "Kill" switches since May, how come mine does not have one?? Bought it in June.

Looking forward to receiving my tire/disc assembly to correct my brake problem.

Jacar Motorsports
Member since May-18-05
93 posts
Jul-15-05, 10:05 PM (EDT)
6. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #1
   > they sure look like a
>bunch of fools for not actually verifying the
>specifications. Sure seems like a "verify first" policy
>would be far superior to an "ostrich mentality".

Well thank you for your comments. Not sure how many dealers out there will disassemble the product to measure the displacement. I am wondering if Honda dealers do...

Us distributors and dealers use the information provided to us by the manufacturer. Ford dealerships don't take cars apart to measure displacement why should we?

Now, this forum brought to my attention important information and I did stopped the sales of these scooters pending SE eval and Jim's paper work.

Humm... Mesquite, Nevada....
Jacar Motorsports
4671 Brooks St. Unit B
Montclair, Ca 91763
909-399-5116 Office
909-399-5117 Fax

unregistered user
Jul-16-05, 10:22 AM (EDT)
8. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #6
   >Ford dealerships don't take cars apart to measure displacement
>why should we?

For scooters being sold as 49cc moped compliant, looks like it would be prudent for a distributor to make an occasional random test.

A "ball park" 4-stroke volume test, may not require engine disassembly.
1. Prop up the shipping crate/frame so the engine block head surface is approximately level.
2. Rotate the piston to bottom dead center.
3. Inject approximately 50ml of oil with a syringe through the spark plug hole.
4. View oil surface level in relationship to the cylinder top.
5. Remove oil with syringe.

Jacar Motorsports
Member since May-18-05
93 posts
Jul-16-05, 01:41 PM (EDT)
9. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #8
   I thank you for the information. This is very valuable info. Rest assure that we are taking many measurements to ensure compliance.


Javier Acosta
Verucci West Coast
Jacar Motorsports
4671 Brooks St. Unit B
Montclair, Ca 91763
909-399-5116 Office
909-399-5117 Fax

unregistered user
Jul-16-05, 03:29 PM (EDT)
10. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #6
   >> they sure look like a
>>bunch of fools for not actually verifying the
>>specifications. Sure seems like a "verify first" policy
>>would be far superior to an "ostrich mentality".
>Well thank you for your comments. Not sure how many dealers
>out there will disassemble the product to measure the
>displacement. I am wondering if Honda dealers do...

Honda, Vespa, Suzuki, Yamaha, etc... don't ship wrong cc bikes. They manufacture to spec because they know it is against the law not to.

unregistered user
Jul-21-05, 00:29 AM (EDT)
12. "Tank supplies EPA cert"
In response to message #10
   Tank supplied a copy of their 150cc EPA certification, I've posted it to the 3k endurance blog @ http://chinascooters.blogspot.com. This is a 150cc certification and does not cover their 50cc, which this thread is specifically about.

unregistered user
Aug-03-05, 07:29 AM (EDT)
15. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #0
   Where does it stated that DOT/EPA confiscated TANK scooters for non-compliance. Can you show me the link?


unregistered user
Aug-20-05, 10:26 AM (EDT)
16. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #0
   I would like to know if the Tank Mini Custom 50 was one of the bikes proven to have a bigger engine than stated by Tank. I have gotten this bike to nearly 90km per hour when the max is supposed to be 34mph. The bike is stock with no Mods. Not that I'm complaining. Also any info. on this bike would be appreciated. Thanks!

unregistered user
Aug-22-05, 10:22 AM (EDT)
17. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #16
   I'm curious about the kill switch on scooters.Is it a state or Fed requirement? I was also wondering if motorcycles need them also.I can't find any info on kill switches either.

Bryce Ludwig
Member since Dec-21-03
4441 posts
Aug-22-05, 09:21 PM (EDT)
18. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #17
   Motorcycles require them too, and it's a DOT thing, so federal. However, if you build a chopper in some states (my home state of Kansas being one) you don't have to put a kill switch, turn signals, or even mirrors on.

- Bryce Ludwig

unregistered user
Aug-23-05, 05:28 AM (EDT)
19. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #18
   Thanks for the info Bryce.I'm not trying to cause a battle.I'm just curious.My brother in law has his 2004 Harley stored in my garage and it dosen't have one.I'm in NY and to be honest i haven't seen a motorcycle yet with a kill switch.I've seen snowmobiles and jet ski's with them.Like i said i'm not being a wise ass,i'm just wondering if thats a state or federal requirement.I'm going to do some more research and post my findings.Thank you again

unregistered user
Aug-23-05, 05:48 AM (EDT)
20. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #19
   Heres a good read from the EPA.Starting 2006 it looks like these bad scooters wont be allowed in the US.


Bryce Ludwig
Member since Dec-21-03
4441 posts
Aug-23-05, 03:55 PM (EDT)
21. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #19
   I didn't figure you were trying to cause a battle. That's pretty weird that it doesn't have a kill switch. All new motorcycles sold in the US are supposed to have one. And I think they have been supposed to have one for a while. I've not been on a lot of motorcycles that are more than 10 years old, but all of the late model ones I've been on have kill switches.

Something to consider is that your brother's Harley has custom bars on it. That's pretty common and many people remove stuff like that.

- Bryce Ludwig

unregistered user
Aug-23-05, 06:40 PM (EDT)
22. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #21
   Bryce,thanks again for the reply.Your right about the bars being custom.He put a different set on and got rid of the stock bars..lol
By the looks of it in that link i posted the bad scooters wont be allowed in the country unless they pass E.P.A. requirements by 2006.

Bryce Ludwig
Member since Dec-21-03
4441 posts
Aug-24-05, 07:17 AM (EDT)
23. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #22
   Many aren't allowed now because of EPA requirements. There are huge quantities of illegal scooters making it into the country right now. If the EPA finds them, they confiscate the bikes and can charge a fine of $32,000 per vehicle. That is from the importer or seller, and while they can confiscate from buyers, I don't know of any instances of that happening. DOT doesn't seem to really be enforcing anything. I think illegal scooters making it in is yet another example of how Homeland Security is really a huge joke in this country, or would be if there was anything funny about it.

- Bryce Ludwig

unregistered user
Aug-24-05, 12:48 PM (EDT)
24. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #23
   You know what they use scooters for in India........mules!

Member since Sep-6-06
8 posts
Sep-07-06, 02:57 PM (EDT)
47. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #22
   People are stuffing these scooters into balloons and stuffing them up their butts to get them across the border.

Suck it easy

unregistered user
Aug-24-05, 09:07 PM (EDT)
25. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #19
   I think a motorcycle kill switch is not like kill switches of jet ski's. Don't those use a cord that kills the motor if you fall off? As far as I know a motorcycle kill switch is just an on/off switch you can reach while griping the handlebars.

Member since Sep-20-05
2 posts
Sep-20-05, 09:56 PM (EDT)
26. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #0
   Hey I just want to get the word out on this POS scooter made by Tank, so check this thread out, I'll keep updating it as things unfoldhttp://www.scooterbbs.com/board/DCForumID13/132.html ......................007

East Coast Scooter
unregistered user
Oct-05-05, 07:27 PM (EDT)
27. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #0
   I think it is time to update this site. We are C & K, Inc. owners of WWW.EASTCOASTSCOOTER.COM In direct partnership with Tank owned and operated by KTMMEX of China. All 2006 models have been brought into complaince with all EPA/DOT/CARB standards and have passed the test required to gain approvals. Check the facts. The engines have been down-graded in HP to 2.2 to meet the standards in CA. and nationwide under the new government rulings for 2006. The 49cc model has not been issued on the site the new CARB postings but has passed the testing and will be at the next update of the website. I have posted the links for the 150cc Scooters and the 250cc Street bikes that show the executive orders. I also would like to comment on the claim that bikes were confiscated from Tankl for being 70+cc that is incorrect information. The company that happend to was Geely not Tank. Please try and get the facts straight.






Kevin Holcomb (Owner)
C & K, INC.
P.O. Box 38
Poultney, VT. 05764

unregistered user
Oct-17-05, 05:18 PM (EDT)
28. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #27
   I am a professional automotive mechanic with 28 years of experience.I personally know a "TANK"dealer in Scottsdale AZ.I can tell everyone for an absolute fact that "TANK" scooters are absolute JUNK.This dealer has a huge pile of broken TANK parts out back,superthin castings that cracked,motors with huge holes in them,broken shocks and forks,failed frame welds that could not be rewelded because the metal is to thin,plastic bodywork that is so brittle it just crumbles when struck lightly with a piece of wood(I tested this myself),and has cracks at all the screw holes right out of the box.Bearings are another weak point,very few last very long.According to the dealer,about 20% of the scooters have a major defect upon uncrating,and the new parts they receive are even worse.I could go on and on,but I think I've made my point.I can't believe people don't do any research before buying these things.No offense,but if you buy a "TANK",you deserve what you get.The word has been out on these things for a long time,and if you're a scooter enthusiast,you know what they are.Jerry.

unregistered user
Oct-25-05, 07:46 AM (EDT)
29. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #28
   I strongly believe what Jerry has said about Tank scooters. I bought one a couple of weeks ago. One morning as usual, I got into it ready for work. I did everything within my power to get it started but unsuccessful, even though I used it the previous day. I called every motor shop I know and they all told me to call the manufacturer, which I later called Tank office in Los Angeles. They were nice but I have lost love for their products since they are not reliable and when it brakes down, there is no shop to fix it. Mine is still sitting in the garage even though I have used it for only two weeks. I'm still waiting for parts and a new battery.

unregistered user
Oct-26-05, 08:12 PM (EDT)
30. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #29
   I do not agree with all the comments made by people in this forum about Tank scooters. I had a problem with mine and even though I bought it from a dealer, Tank people told me to send it to them so that their technician can take a look at it. They fixed the problem and gave me confidence. They are good people, even though I was supposed to send it to the dealer, they checked it themselves. Tank products are not that bad as has been portrayed. Ford cars are the worsed of all cars and yet since it is American own company, everyone is silent. Long live Tank products and Chinese companies.

unregistered user
Oct-27-05, 11:17 AM (EDT)
31. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #30
   After reading this for a while i have come to the conclusion that Tank is a good scooter the problem it is sold to wannabe mechanic that only know how to put gasoline after spilling some, I have a touring 150 and i am very happy with it althoug i had some elctrical problems at first but nothing that can't be solved with a good look at the wiring diagram. People has became acostume to mantanaince free vehicles and scooters aren't the case they require care not the regular wash but minimun mechanical knowlege. this applies to all makes of scooters not only TANKs. STOP BLAMING THE MACHINE FOR YOUR IGNORANCE, LEARN HOW IT WORKS AND YOU'LL HAVE A MUCH ENJOYABLE EXPERIENCE.

unregistered user
Oct-30-05, 05:01 PM (EDT)
32. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #31
   I have TK 150 T-7 scooter from Tank and I'm so impress about the speed and its quick start. Those who are crying about Tank scooters should know that people will not spend $3000 on 49 cc scooters which cannot even go 25 miles per hour. People will buy Tank 150cc which can go at 60 miles and cost half the price of other manufactures scooters which has little power and cost high. I saw the price of 49cc from Noho Scooters and I was shocked about the price. I do not have any problem with my Tank 150cc racer scooter. It is fun to drive and planning to get one for my wife.

Bryce Ludwig
Member since Dec-21-03
4441 posts
Oct-30-05, 05:11 PM (EDT)
33. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #32
   Hey, you're going to need to register if you wish to endorse something.

Also, those $3000 50cc scooters are not just of higher quality, but they typically have better lighting, more comfortable seats, and so forth. There is a market for those scooters, and price isn't the absolute purchase factor for many people.

- Bryce Ludwig

unregistered user
Nov-03-05, 11:21 AM (EDT)
34. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #28

Can you (or anyone else interested) post some pics of these "motors with huge holes in them" and so on?
I would like to see the huge pile of broken tank parts and brittle bodywork
for myself. I hear so much about what's good and bad about Tanks I would
like to see some objective evidence pro or con.

You would do all of us considering a Tank scoot a big service if you can
document all the stuff you posted online!

BTW, I know most motors have big holes in them---they are called ports and cylinders! Are you saying these blew out a head gasket?

unregistered user
Aug-31-06, 04:58 PM (EDT)
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unregistered user
Nov-03-05, 09:22 PM (EDT)
35. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #27
   I have seen many very good trouble free tank sporty 50's out there, and feel tank is getting picked on without merit. Yes ALL scooters from overseas has their problems, but like mentioned before, you have to correct it, and go on. There are shops that will work on them,maybe not in your particular area, but they are out there. For the price, they are an outstanding product, all of them, Tank is put together better than most.

Member since Jun-3-02
380 posts
Nov-04-05, 05:20 PM (EDT)
36. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #35
   The Minister of Cheese-fries
This thread has turned into a forum for Tank flag-waving trolls.

Blah, blah Tank blah. Blah ha-ha blah, blah, Tank blah bla blah.

Register and you might be taken seriously.


Is my Metrocycle scooter illegal?
unregistered user
Jan-18-06, 07:58 PM (EDT)
37. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #0
   I just bought a scooter over the weekend. I didn't have time to research it. The guy wanted very little money for it and it was practically new. After searching for the manufacturer, I came up empty handed until I found a picture of a Tank online.
Here is a picture of my scooter, which looks identical to a Tank.

On the pink slip, the make is "METRO" and the year is 2005. Under "Body Type Model" it says "MS". It is registered until 4/2006. I haven't gone to the DMV yet to transfer ownership.

The owner's manual has a logo that says "HTH - High Technology High Quality". It also says "Patrol-4" and has a sticker on it that says "STCQT50".

The side of the scooter says "Metro-4 STCQT50" and there is a "Metrocycles" logo on the front. I can not find this company. The previous owner said he bought it new off eBay.

It has this tag with the VIN saying it is legal in the US, but I'm not sure if it means anything or not.

Can anyone verify if this is indeed a Tank scooter?

I am concerned that it is an illegal scooter, based on the thread describing the Tank Sporty 50 Failure. If so, was it illegal for the private party to sell it to me?

Any information about this scooter manufacturer or distributor is greatly appreciated. It doesn't say Tank anywhere on it. If I was sold an illegal scooter, I would like to take it up with the previous owner

So far it is runnin fine. It starts okay and gets to a little under 35mph (takes about a block to get there). The previous owner had filled the oil until it was overflowing out of the dipstick tube, so I drained it off until it read properly on the dipstick. That gave it a little more pep. Otherwise I haven't done anything to it. I just want to get back and forth to school with it while getting good mileage.

I just registered for the forum and I haven't received my confirmation email yet, so sorry this may seem like an anonymous posting. I actually got to this site because the previous owner wrote it down. He also said to contact Steven Elliott at bigassmotors.com if I need parts.

unregistered user
Jun-01-06, 08:10 PM (EDT)
38. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #0
   I am in the process of buying a Tank scooter 150 in Los Angeles, are they approved now in CA ??

unregistered user
Jun-03-06, 02:09 AM (EDT)
39. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #38
   i just bought a tank 150cc in la and registered it and go license plates in san diego without any problem

unregistered user
Jul-16-06, 00:02 AM (EDT)
40. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #39
   My husband bought me one for Xmas in 2005 and we had it registered ijn ca (san diego) no problem. I use it now for my commute to work (3 mi) and I love it. I laugh at all my co-workers with SUVs who are paying for gas and where I work cars pay 70.00 bucks a month for parking, I park for free right outside the building. There are some irritating design flaws, the mirrors need to be tweaked (we have the tour 150 SE) and rear basket thing was a piece of shit. We also have to grease up the kick stand once in a while because it rubs against something while driving and makes a squeaky noise. But in terms of cost/benefit ratio, the scooter has really been a deal. We take it out the 2 of us on weekends and it scoots us around no problem for the whole day (approx 300 lbs), no problem reaching 55 mph.

Member since Jan-7-04
1313 posts
Jul-16-06, 00:18 AM (EDT)
41. "RE: Tank Scooter failed testing!"
In response to message #0
   LAST EDITED ON Jul-16-06 AT 00:26 AM (EDT)
EPA Prevents Illegal Imported Engines from Endangering U.S. Air Quality

Release date: 07/14/2006

Contact Information: Dave Ryan, (202) 564-4355 / ryan.dave@epa.gov

(Washington, D.C. - July 14, 2006) EPA and U.S. Customs and Border Protection have seized and prevented the import of over 11,000 pieces of illegal gasoline and diesel-powered vehicles and equipment in the past nine months. In addition, EPA has assessed over $798,000 in civil penalties against the importers, in addition to U.S. Customs penalties and storage fees. The substandard equipment, which includes tractors, lawn and garden equipment, off-road motorcycles, all-terrain vehicles and electric generators, poses a significant risk to the U.S. public health and the environment. <SNIP>
You can read the rest here.

But check out what is in the picture

Another interesting bit of information

EPA alleges that Respondent imported or caused the importation into the United States the seventy-eight motorcycles described in Tables 1 and 2 below (the subject motorcycles). For the subject motorcycles described in Table 1, Respondent imported the motorcycles as vehicles with an engine displacement less than 50 cc, and not covered by an EPA issued-certificate of conformity. However, according to EPA's engine
displacement measurements, the motorcycles had an engine displacement of 72 cc. Such motorcycles are required to be covered by an EPA-issued certificate of conformity and to bear an EPA emissions label. For the subject motorcycles described in Table 2, Respondent represented that the subject motorcycles were covered under an EPA-issued certificate of confonnity, and caused Import Motorcycles Distributors to import the subject motorcycles. However the subject motorcycles did not bear the required EPA emissions label.

2005 Stella




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