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Subject: "CF Moto Review" Archived thread - Read only
 
 
Conferences > International New Scooter BBS > Topic #6079
Reading Topic #6079

m5
Member since Jun-7-02
1291 posts
Aug-02-06, 02:21 PM (EDT)
 
"CF Moto Review"
 
   on 2SB

http://2strokebuzz.com/index.php/?p=3109

-Matt
No Direction Home
Twin Cities Rally August 11-13
http://nodirectionhomerally.com/


 

 
wisart
Member since May-7-06
153 posts
Aug-02-06, 05:24 PM (EDT)
 
1. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #0
 
   The scooter/cycle may not be very good but what an excellent article written by Phil. Would love to see more reviews of scoots and bikes by him.

- wisart


 
adminadmin
Member since May-28-02
1518 posts
Aug-02-06, 08:13 PM (EDT)
 
2. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #0
 
   I still think it would be a better review if it wasnt done by a dealer who sells the buddy which he actually plugs in his review.

Oh and the hondamatic bike he referred to was definately NOT successful and was only made for a couple of years. THe cfmoto is not at all like the hondamatics in any way. It is like a helix tho.


 
wisart
Member since May-7-06
153 posts
Aug-02-06, 08:33 PM (EDT)
 
3. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #2
 
   >I still think it would be a better review if it wasnt done
>by a dealer who sells the buddy which he actually plugs in
>his review.
>
>Oh and the hondamatic bike he referred to was definately NOT
>successful and was only made for a couple of years. THe
>cfmoto is not at all like the hondamatics in any way. It is
>like a helix tho.

Good points. Would you say that the review is accurate?

I've only recently heard people talk about the Hondamatic... so if it was successful I totally missed the boat... er bike!

- wisart


 
adminadmin
Member since May-28-02
1518 posts
Aug-02-06, 09:46 PM (EDT)
 
4. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #3
 
   No, I do not agree with the assessment. I do agree that buying a full on motorcycle online is worse than buying a scooter, which I also do not think is wise.

My opinion of cfmoto is high, but I feel that my opinion will be taken as biased since I sell them, so I will keep it to myself. My biggest complaint is that people buy a heavy 250 thinking somehow its a 500, then complain about it not being a 500cc bike.

It is NOT as fast or nimble as a ninja, which I have also owned and love, but the cfmoto isnt supposed to be. Its like saying a goldwing doesnt handle anywhere near a R1.

I think the cfmoto bikes are supposed to be trainers/commuters and should be seen as such. They are not hard to work on, once you learn the body panel removal. I do not have a lot of customer issues with the ones we have sold and they are selling briskly. I stand by the concept that any motor product needs dedicated support. I mean, a dealer of any product should be skilled at support of their line. I am tired of people complaining that they have no support for something they bought knowing they werent near support. That was their choice.

Oh and by the way, I do not sell online, period.


 
BaronMotorcycles
Member since May-3-05
981 posts
Aug-02-06, 10:18 PM (EDT)
 
5. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #4
 
   I want to add a few comments. This dealer wanted to sign up to be our dealer in Cleveland. This was the reason we referred the work to him. We did not expect him to perform the work for free.

It is true that this particular bike had problems. This is why it went in for repairs. The dealer was contacted by our technician, but did not want to listen to anything the technician said. It seems that he formed his opinion before ever talking to us.

Overheating problems are not normal on these bikes. So clearly, the dealer could not diagnose the problem. Yet he made it look like it's the norm for the V5 bikes. Since the fan switch was not working properly, it may be that the bike overheated and blew the head gasket or some other internal engine damage occured. The mechanic should have isolated what exactly caused the overheating rather than just saying that it's a bad bike. There are many V5 bikes on the road now, performing without any overheating issues, so the mechanic's incompetence and inability to to diagnose the problem properly should not be the reason for bad review.

V5 is not designed to be a racing bike. Although I personally drove a V5 at 70mph, it's designed for city commute. The bike keeps up well with traffic and is made to be the "Oldsmobile" of motorcycles. While professional motorcyclists may find the bike "meek" and suspension lacking stiffness, it is perfectly fine for a beginner or someone looking for shiftless commute.


 
illnoise
Member since Feb-23-06
59 posts
Aug-03-06, 11:12 AM (EDT)
 
10. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #5
 
   SE, Baron, etc, thanks for responding. I did try to make it very clear that Phil was a dealer, and that this was just one example of the bike. I know you guys are on the West Coast and maybe don't know Phil well, but most east-coasters will tell you he's a stand-up guy and as honest as anybody.

If Phil was biased towards chinese bikes, I'm sure you'd be the first to admit, he has good reason to be, though I'd like to think he's more objective than most people.

The comparison to a Ninja 250, i believe, was less of a performance comparison than just pointing out that there are much more "proven" bikes out there for a similar price. It would take an awful lot to convince me that Baron comes anywhere near the big Japanese makes in quality, parts supply, or dealer support, would you even try to make that argument? I respect what you do, and I know you work hard, and there's a future in Chinese bikes, but do you honestly believe that, at this point in time?

I'd appreciate and welcome any comments or rebuttals on 2strokebuzz as well, it's in your interests to post there, where people reading the review firsthand.

SE, I'm glad to hear you're not selling bikes online, I was under the impression you were. I don't have any idea why anyone anywhere would buy a motor vehicle online, sight unseen, whether it's a chinese scooter or a Honda Accord, it just doesn't make sense.


 
BaronMotorcycles
Member since May-3-05
981 posts
Aug-03-06, 11:28 AM (EDT)
 
11. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #10
 
   Ilnoise,

If you compare prices on bikes, you need to compare similar models. Chinese bikes with gearshifts sell for much less than $3000. Comparing CF Moto with Ninja is like apples and oranges. The bikes serve different purposes and target different riders. Just like apples and oranges are both round, the bikes are both motorcycles, but that's where the comparison ends.


 
wombatWheeler
Member since Nov-26-05
240 posts
Aug-06-06, 02:58 PM (EDT)
 
30. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #11
 
   >Ilnoise,
>
>If you compare prices on bikes, you need to compare similar
>models. Chinese bikes with gearshifts sell for much less
>than $3000. Comparing CF Moto with Ninja is like apples and
>oranges. The bikes serve different purposes and target
>different riders. Just like apples and oranges are both
>round, the bikes are both motorcycles, but that's where the
>comparison ends.

The comparison is valid, however, when you consider that a 6 speed transmission full of precision machined gears and bearings, shift forks, and a multiplate clutch assembly just has to cost more to build than a couple of pulleys, weights, springs and a rubber v-belt. Ditto for a double overhead cam, 4 valve per cylinder, twin carb twin cylinder 34 HP engine. So why does a (made in Japan) Ninja 250 cost the same (or less) than a (made in China) Baron 250?


Barry


 
BaronMotorcycles
Member since May-3-05
981 posts
Aug-06-06, 04:25 PM (EDT)
 
31. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #30
 
   Simple. Because Japan makes 10 times (or more) as many of their bikes as does CF Moto. CF Moto product is unique. Price has nothing to do with the actual mechanical components. It has to do with production volumes as well as uniqueness of the product. For example, 150cc engine in China costs less than 50cc engine. This is because production volume for these engines is very high. I have no doubt that prices on CF Moto automatic bikes will drop if Honda or Yamaha introduces a similar automatic model for the same price.


 
Bryce Ludwig
Member since Dec-21-03
4441 posts
Aug-06-06, 04:56 PM (EDT)
 
32. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #31
 
   Price has to do with a combination of the components, assembling them, developing them, as well as the uniqueness of the product and the volume of it.

As odd as it is, I'm with Wombat on this one. The Ninja is many times the bike that the CF Moto is in terms of performance, quality, and distribution network. Granted, they do offer different things, but the development that CF Moto has done on the V3 adn V5 is not the expensive part. The engine, the suspension, the brakes were all components that they copied or bought from someone else (who likely copied from someone else). The prices are where they are because CF Moto and their distributors and dealers have found that they can get that price point for it. Just as Vespa USA has found that they can get a certain price point for their models.

- Bryce Ludwig


 
Corporal Mantis
Member since Sep-27-05
604 posts
Aug-07-06, 00:33 AM (EDT)
 
33. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #32
 
   I have to agree here. I just got the chance to test drive a v3 and while really nice I couldn't justify the price. If I am going to be spending that much money I would just get a real bike. I guess it boils down to performance vs. features. Or maybe Im just bitter I got laughed at on my scooter today by 30 thugged out bikers and am planning my revenge.

Strada Scooter Blog
http://stradascooter.blogspot.com/


 
Big Al
Member since Jun-7-02
2578 posts
Aug-07-06, 00:45 AM (EDT)
 
34. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #33
 
   Those "bikers" were actually all dentists.


 
illnoise
Member since Feb-23-06
59 posts
Aug-07-06, 00:55 AM (EDT)
 
35. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #33
 
   Whether or not you like the design of the CFmoto motorcycles, I'd be seriously surprised if it impressed any bikers more than a regular scooter would.

If you were driving a Hummer and passed a Honda Civic, you wouldn't notice it. If you passed a Honda Civic with plastic bodywork attached to it to make it look like a Hummer, you'd laugh pretty hard.

Me, I'd rather drive the Civic than the Hummer or the fake Hummer, no matter what anyone thinks.

Bb.


 
Brooke
Member since Jun-3-02
2807 posts
Aug-07-06, 06:27 AM (EDT)
 
36. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #35
 
   Snob.


 
jacine
Member since Mar-24-06
132 posts
Aug-02-06, 10:23 PM (EDT)
 
6. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #4
 
   A couple of items didn't make much sense. Well maybe more than a couple.

1. When did the V5 have a preload adjustable shock. Neither the V3 or V5 have an adjustable shock. Try to twist the crown and you destroy the unit. A good preload shock is on the list of options.

2. Repair of a faulty oil line?. There are no oil lines external to the engine at least not on the V3, and I assume the V5 (same engine) Now there have been cases where the o-ring is not on the dip stick, that will leak oil back towards the wheel, but hardly an oil line, nor a major fix.

3. The floor boards are unique. With hundreds of designs on hondas, Yamahas, and aftermarkets, this is just another one. They work, that's all I can say. Oh and they are not adjustable.

4. The rear pegs match the front boards. Nothing unusual.

5. If anything the seat padding on the V3 may be overdone. I have never heard of anybody complaining of lack of padding. On the other hand everyone complains about the Yamaha V*650 stock seat.

6. Turning at speed, tight rights and lefts at 30 to 40 mph have never been a problem. Maybe at 70 it might become an issue, but who does tight turns at 70 and expects to go on riding?

7. I'm not sure how you can hear the radio clearly at 30 mph with a helmet if all it does is screech. Yes at 40 mph wind noise in the helmet means I can't hear the radio. So what I may do is create an insert and use headphones. However, the sound is distortion free up to the max volume of the unit. You do have to tie off a couple of cables that may cross the speaker and cause vibration. I do agree that I have no idea what station I am on unless the station identifies itself, or I know the music. But I pre-program the stations, so no problems.

8. Why is the mechanic trying to run highway speeds on a bike he has repaired?. For the most part, members of the cfmoto group have had no problems with speed. Speed ranges from 65 to 82, depending on changes made to the bike and locality. Although Lev says all the 172mmA engines are the same, I have reason to believe, that some changes are being made in the jets, and carbs, accordin to some of the specs from various dealers.

9. Rusty parts?. Can't find any.

10. Weak cooling?. I ride the bike in 115 degree weather, and have had no problems. Of course I did add dexon antifreeze. I am aware that some of the owners have changed out the temp control units so the fan comes on earlier at lower temps, and there have been some issues of the fans not turning on. Simple enough repair if needed but seems to be a rare issue. Replacing the coolant with something a little better (dexon) seems to do the job quite nicely.

11. Ninja 250 - sure I might have purchased one if it was automatic. I have a V*650, and its a pain to shift in traffic, and yes it gets hot sitting in traffic. Imagine a topline Yamaha twin 650 cc and only using air cooling. No fan, no oil cooling, just air. No wonder it doesn't come with a temp guage.

12. Seems the parts were available as needed to repair the bike.

I can only relate to the V3, but I assume the V5 is the same. It is interesting that a customer comes in for an oil leak, and the mechanic is playing with the radio, shocks, and everything else on the bike and then has time to write up an article.

And regardless it only cost $150.00 to repair all those problems, pull the bike completely apart, play with every little part, and go for a ride on the highway. All in what? less than 2 hours at 75.00 per hour.

Did I forget to mention that the bike that won't run is being drag raced against a buddy?

Amazing. Simply amazing.

Jacine
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/cfmoto


 
adminadmin
Member since May-28-02
1518 posts
Aug-02-06, 11:01 PM (EDT)
 
7. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #6
 
   I swear to God I didnt pay for this. Your write up is pretty much exactly what I am thinking inside.

I am absolutely not having the experiences the reviewer mentioned. We have been having insane heat that has stalled some 150cc bikes of different makes, but no cfmoto overheats or I would honestly admit it.

Slowish yes, crap no way.


 
scootindan
Member since Feb-20-06
89 posts
Aug-03-06, 08:09 AM (EDT)
 
8. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #7
 
   ...and by the way, if the radio goes "Screeeeeeeee", check to see if you have a resistor type spark plug. They are designed to help reduce static from the ignition.

Personally, I'd appreciate it if you didn't ride through my neighborhood with your radio loud enough to be heard at 40 MPH through a helmet.


 
jacine
Member since Mar-24-06
132 posts
Aug-03-06, 09:39 AM (EDT)
 
9. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #8
 
   Find it better than loud pipes. Definitely get noticed.

Jacine
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/cfmoto


 
wombatWheeler
Member since Nov-26-05
240 posts
Aug-03-06, 06:40 PM (EDT)
 
21. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #7
 
   >I swear to God I didnt pay for this. Your write up is pretty
>much exactly what I am thinking inside.
>
>I am absolutely not having the experiences the reviewer
>mentioned. We have been having insane heat that has stalled
>some 150cc bikes of different makes, but no cfmoto overheats
>or I would honestly admit it.
>
>Slowish yes, crap no way.

You have to wiretie some cables at the speaker? Change to a better antifreeze? Possibly replace the fan temp switch? And the dipstick O-ring might leak oil near the tire! (A potentially lethal flaw). Sure sounds like crap to me, as the term has been defined by several knowledgeable posters. As for the V-Star 650 engine, it's a derivative of the old Virago engine and will probably run forever, with or without a temp gage. I have an '82 that's still going strong with no major repairs.

Barry


 
adminadmin
Member since May-28-02
1518 posts
Aug-03-06, 08:35 PM (EDT)
 
24. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #21
 
   So then let me get this straight, you have your opinion which is based on this one review and I have mine which is based on regular service of some 20 customer bikes, and I have never had any of these problems you mention above. If you have. then let me know, and especially send pictures to back it up so no one can dispute it. My experience is not similar to these claims. Proof is better than rumor.

Who was talking about a vstar anyway? I had a vstar 1100 classic and it was by FAR the best bike I ever owned. The only bike I miss. The virago motor is a legend. Love em.


 
DamnDonzi
Member since Jul-24-06
516 posts
Aug-03-06, 09:12 PM (EDT)
Click to send message via ICQ  
25. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #24
 
   >So then let me get this straight, you have your opinion
>which is based on this one review and I have mine which is
>based on regular service of some 20 customer bikes, and I
>have never had any of these problems you mention above. If
>you have. then let me know, and especially send pictures to
>back it up so no one can dispute it. My experience is not
>similar to these claims. Proof is better than rumor.
>
>Who was talking about a vstar anyway? I had a vstar 1100
>classic and it was by FAR the best bike I ever owned. The
>only bike I miss. The virago motor is a legend. Love em.

He was refering to the scooter world crowd who specifically stated that if anything on a scooter needs to be wire tied, the scooter is junk


 
illnoise
Member since Feb-23-06
59 posts
Aug-03-06, 11:52 AM (EDT)
 
12. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #2
 
   Well, surely part of the reason phil would go through so much effort to write this up is to attract people to his shop, i don't fault him for that. Also, as i said on the baron forum, this would be a good opportunity to contact him and convince him otherwise, if you can prove him wrong, he'll become one of your most vocal supporters, and he'll probably sell a lot of your bikes.

That said, I trust an unsolicited bad review from a competing dealer much more than i trust a good review from the manufacturer, like you see in ScooterWorld or Scoot!, where an advertiser initiates and controls the review process (and often actually writes the review, and sometimes even puts their name on it!).

I'm not a big Hondamatic expert, but it's always been my impression they were quality bikes, but there was just no market at the time for an automatic motorcycle. Times have certainly changed, I bet Harley could sell an automatic now. As sad as I am to see manual-transmission scooters more or less become history, I welcome automatic motorcycles, though personally i'd rather see a new direction in design for such bikes, rather than hiding a scooter engine under retro-cruiser bodywork. I hate "retro" and "cruiser." But that's just my opinion, "retro" and "cruiser" sell just fine.


 
Bryce Ludwig
Member since Dec-21-03
4441 posts
Aug-03-06, 01:12 PM (EDT)
 
13. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #12
 
   That said, I trust an unsolicited bad review from a competing dealer much more than i trust a good review from the manufacturer, like you see in ScooterWorld or Scoot!, where an advertiser initiates and controls the review process (and often actually writes the review, and sometimes even puts their name on it!).

I've never been told what to write in any of my reviews for Scooter World Magazine. I take a scooter out for some length of time. I ride it like it is my own, and I write an objective critique based on my impression of it. I don't sell any advertising and the advertisers never contact me. When I was brought on board my mandate was to be honest and interesting. I can also attest to the fact that every article with my by line was my own original work.

Additionally, our advertisers don't initiate the reviews. We do. We look at what is new, upcoming, and what would be of interest to our readers and select products to review accordingly.

I think you might be getting press releases mixed up with reviews. In some magazines, a vendor will release information that they wrote. Some magazines will print them without editing them, others won't print them at all. Most magazines will edit them for size and to some degree for content. Most magazines that print press releases typically indicate where the information came from and will not print blatant advertising that is thinly veiled as a press release. For example, if a computer magazine printed an HP press release about an upcoming line of new models, they will often paraphrase and categorize it as industry news.

Scoot! has a similar structure regarding reviews, but they do print more press releases than we do.

- Bryce Ludwig


 
illnoise
Member since Feb-23-06
59 posts
Aug-03-06, 03:23 PM (EDT)
 
14. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #13
 
   ha, let me see if I can piss off some more people in *this* post...

ScooterWorld is a fine magazine (and I very much appreciate being on your mailing list, though that might have just come to an end, ha), but like most magazines, you accept advertising, and as such, you're somewhat (however little or however much) beholden to them to advertisers to keep your magazine going, financially (subscription/newsstand costs are a very small portion of any magazine's income). Magazines are also on a tight deadline and budget, which often results in a reliance on rewriting (if not reprinting word-for-word) press releases as a review, and relying on PR and such for story ideas. Maybe you guys don't do that much, specifically, but look at any major magazine that reviews products or covers a certain industry and you'll see a definite pattern between ads and product reviews.

I consider you to be as objective as a commercial enterprise can be, but you run ads for bikes that I would consider to be of questionable quality, and while you do point out certain bikes' faults in reviews, i've never seen a generally-negative review in Scoot! or ScooterWorld (other than the unnamed "eBay" bike in SW and reviews of unnamed Asian restorations in Scoot). I'd say the omission of negative reviews (how many of your advertisers would get generally-positive reviews from an experienced motorcycle rider/writer?) is a sign that you would prefer to say nothing and keep an advertiser rather than share as much information as possible with your readers at the expense of advertising income.

As far as bylines, Joel Martin writes for your magazine regularly, and he is a regular advertiser. Both Scoot! and SW (iirc) have run tech articles written by employees of the product being installed or maintained... Again, they're useful and welcome, but they're the company line, not an independent observation.

Anyone starting a magazine (or webpage) with the intent of making money is primarily getting into the advertising business, not the journalism business. There's nothing wrong with that, I've worked at many magazines, and it's a perfectly respectable career. I work in advertising right now, for that matter, and there's nothing wrong with it. It's lucrative and I get to do creative work that is rewarding.

I don't mean to bash your magazine (or Scoot!, which I'm proud to say was inspired partially by 2strokebuzz back in the zine days), I enjoy both greatly, and find them great sources of information. I also don't mean to imply that you guys don't care about your readers, you surely do, but i disagree that financial considerations play no part in the content of your magazine. It may be a very small part, but they surely do.

I'm also not bragging that 2strokebuzz is the ultimate non-objective source for anything. To be honest, I'm hardly an expert on any of this stuff (even after covering it for over ten years) and I take whatever content I can get. I'm certainly nothing resembling a journalist, and I definitely reprint my fair share of press releases. I just think that if there was bias on Phil's part in my story, it was very clearly labeled that he is a competing dealer, and I pointed out that the example reviewed was just that, one example of the bike. As I told Baron on their forum, I'd be happy to try one out myself and give my personal impressions of it. I'd love to be more thorough and do more reviews myself and I'd love to spend all day working on 2strokebuzz, but (as is the flip side of the freedom of not taking advertising) I don't have nearly enough free time.

I'm not trying to be a dick. I think Chinese motorcycles are only a few years away from dominating the planet, but a lot's going to have to happen in that time. One of the most important (other than improved quality, duh) is going to be for importers to get thicker skins and understand that their bikes have a (deserved) bad reputation and it's their responsibility to prove to the world that their bikes are better than people's expectations. Baron and SE's comments are welcome, and they were more or less professional about it and that's cool. The very fact they're communicating with riders and (sorry) journalists is a good sign that things are improving, and every step of the way, people will open up their hearts and minds to chinese products. But we're not there yet.

Bb.


 
Bryce Ludwig
Member since Dec-21-03
4441 posts
Aug-03-06, 03:59 PM (EDT)
 
15. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #14
 
   like most magazines, you accept advertising, and as such, you're somewhat (however little or however much) beholden to them to advertisers to keep your magazine going, financially (subscription/newsstand costs are a very small portion of any magazine's income).

Generally there is some truth to that, but what most magazines do is keep advertising and editorial departments as separate as possible. The only contact I've ever had with advertisers is when I've met some of the people at Diamo, Genuine or Kymco at things like Amerivespa or at the Indy Dealer Expo. The only feedback we have really received is that our honesty is appreciated.

Magazines are also on a tight deadline and budget, which often results in a reliance on rewriting (if not reprinting word-for-word) press releases as a review, and relying on PR and such for story ideas. Maybe you guys don't do that much, specifically, but look at any major magazine that reviews products or covers a certain industry and you'll see a definite pattern between ads and product reviews.

Yes, there are plenty of magazines that will just straight up use advertiser press releases for the reasons you mention. Fortunately we're bimonthly and small enough that it's not a problem. Another complication that many magazines run into is that printers typically work in mulitples of 4 or 8, so some magazines have problems filling the space. We don't have that problem.

Anyone starting a magazine (or webpage) with the intent of making money is primarily getting into the advertising business, not the journalism business.

Agreed. We got into it because at the time there weren't any publications devoted to new scooters.

As far as bylines, Joel Martin writes for your magazine regularly, and he is a regular advertiser. Both Scoot! and SW (iirc) have run tech articles written by employees of the product being installed or maintained... Again, they're useful and welcome, but they're the company line, not an independent observation.

Our tech articles are never written by employees of any company that advertises products. There were mechanics from Sportique who wrote tech articles, but those articles did not feature products, and really had nothing to do with Sportique. It is no different than Phil Waters writing articles for you.

Joel Martin's articles are never about products. They focus on industry trends and patterns.

I pointed out that the example reviewed was just that, one example of the bike.

That's something we try to do in every review, and to also say that these are the impressions of one person.

I'm also in agreement with you that one day the Chinese motorcycle industry will probably be the dominant player in most markets, including ours. As you say though, a lot will have to happen. Every Chinese scooter I've ridden, I've done with an open mind. Some have done much better than others.

- Bryce Ludwig


 
illnoise
Member since Feb-23-06
59 posts
Aug-03-06, 04:45 PM (EDT)
 
18. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #15
 
   >Agreed. We got into it because at the time there weren't any
>publications devoted to new scooters.

And good thing you did, and you seem to be getting a lot of advertising, which is cool. Making a scooter magazine viable is no easy task. I would sure love your ad staff if they were at American Scooterist.

>It is no different than Phil Waters writing
>articles for you.

Sure, fair enough.

>Joel Martin's articles are never about products. They focus
>on industry trends and patterns.

True, also, I guess the difference is that you stand to gain financially by giving them a voice in your magazine (via their advertising) while I do not. So the difference is, I'm stupid. I should be making some money off all this, ha.

>I'm also in agreement with you that one day the Chinese
>motorcycle industry will probably be the dominant player in
>most markets, including ours. As you say though, a lot will
>have to happen. Every Chinese scooter I've ridden, I've done
>with an open mind. Some have done much better than others.

You (to the degree you focus on chinese scooters) and the Baron guys and SE and others are smart to get in at this point in the game. In a few years, Chinese scooters will be a lucrative business and you guys will hopefully reap the rewards of the loads of shit people will hurl at you for the next couple years. Keep remembering that when it gets hard. And i'm not being cynical or sarcastic, I'm serious. It'll come around, and then i'll say "good for you." None of this is personal, and I respect and enjoy what you do.

Bb.


 
Bryce Ludwig
Member since Dec-21-03
4441 posts
Aug-03-06, 07:04 PM (EDT)
 
22. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #18
 
   Joel Martin's articles are never about products. They focus on industry trends and patterns.

True, also, I guess the difference is that you stand to gain financially by giving them a voice in your magazine (via their advertising) while I do not. So the difference is, I'm stupid. I should be making some money off all this, ha.

Joel was advertising with us before he wrote any articles, and there have been some articles he wanted to do but that we didn't end up doing. So we didn't just give him an article because he advertised, we gave him one because he actually had something that would be of interest to our readers.

I think you're right that Chinese scooters will be lucrative for some in the next 5 years. Then again, I think scooters in general will probably become more lucrative in the next few years. I think it's going to become a very competitive market place for a while though.

- Bryce Ludwig


 
illnoise
Member since Feb-23-06
59 posts
Aug-03-06, 10:33 PM (EDT)
 
26. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #22
 
   I love that Bryce is getting ripped apart on one thread for putting down Chinese Scooters, and getting ripped apart (by me) on this one for sticking up for them (to some degree). Everyone wins on the BBS! : )

Like I said, none of this ranting is personal, and I have a fair deal of respect for all the people involved in this thread and I appreciate and welcome their insight. (yes, that's an open invitation to send info my way) The more I think about it, I've become more of a media critic than a scooter expert over all this time, and I am admittedly cynical well beyond my years, I'll try to lighten up.

As far as Joel Martin, his stories *have* been useful and looking through a few issues I have on hand here, there does not seem to be any conflict of interest, I apologize. Another huge problem I thought I had (with something both SW and Scoot printed recently) turned out to be a misunderstanding and not the big deal I thought it was (long story), so I don't know why I had to rip on either magazine, sorry. You all do a great job, and I know exactly how hard it is to run a magazine. I meant to say hi in Denver, but my attention span was amazingly low, I remember walking towards your booth and then I must have seen a shiny object or the hot dog truck or something.

Bb.


 
Bryce Ludwig
Member since Dec-21-03
4441 posts
Aug-03-06, 10:57 PM (EDT)
 
27. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #26
 
   LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-06 AT 10:58 PM (EDT)
 
I love that Bryce is getting ripped apart on one thread for putting down Chinese Scooters, and getting ripped apart (by me) on this one for sticking up for them (to some degree). Everyone wins on the BBS! : )

I'm an equal opportunity piñata this week on the INSBBS.

Like I said, none of this ranting is personal, and I have a fair deal of respect for all the people involved in this thread and I appreciate and welcome their insight. (yes, that's an open invitation to send info my way) The more I think about it, I've become more of a media critic than a scooter expert over all this time, and I am admittedly cynical well beyond my years, I'll try to lighten up.

I don't take much of anything said here personally. I'm generally pretty critical of the media, because so many of them get it wrong. After seeing countless terrible articles on scooters in local papers and TV, and seeing myself misquoted many times...yeah, it's good to be a skeptic. So I'll take no offense where none was intended.

I meant to say hi in Denver, but my attention span was amazingly low, I remember walking towards your booth and then I must have seen a shiny object or the hot dog truck or something.

There were a lot of shiny objects that day, including the booth across the lot from us with the beautifully restored vintage Vespas, including the bicycle Vespa. Vic Fletchall did all of those and they are so ridiculously gorgeous. I went to his house with some other scooter people from KC a couple weekends ago and his collection is drool worthy, and it's all the more amazing when you discover he did all of the work himself. Paint, body, electrical, cleanly retrofitting autolube systems to scooters that never had them. He builds his own tools too and has done some modernized Cushmans. Very talented guy.

- Bryce Ludwig


 
Brooke
Member since Jun-3-02
2807 posts
Aug-03-06, 07:08 PM (EDT)
 
23. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #18
 
   What I think is that chinese motorcycles will be huge players but from what I've seen from the behavior of the factories that it's just a matter of time before they find someone that will be a more profitable/easier to work with importer. The people currently in and running may not be getting in on the ground floor of something good if the ground floor is meaningless. This will be the hurdle for them in the long run for dependable service to their importers and ultimately the buyer.


 
tronporn
Member since Jul-12-06
37 posts
Aug-03-06, 04:15 PM (EDT)
 
16. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-06 AT 04:38 PM (EDT)
 
The V3 and V5 have a nearly identical drivetrain and features. To touch on a few points - I've never had issues with turning while accelerating whatsoever, even at 50 MPH. It may not be the most nimble of bikes, like a Ninja 250 or similar crotch rocket, but one thing it has in spades is pickup at lower speeds. Cornering is not an issue whatsoever on either the V3 or V5.

Secondly, I own a V3 and have test drove the V5 twice before purchasing the V3. Although acceleration is slow beyond 60MPH (btw, I am 210lbs@6.2"), I can hit 65 and eventually 70on flat.

Third, I've not found a single rusted out part and I easily have over 2500 kilometers on my bike. I've not had any issues with overheating on my V3, either. Although I do not drive a V5, the coolant systems are identical. I'm driving 6 days out of the week in Kansas City Missouri, where our average temperature has been in the upper 90's for the past two months in stop-and-go traffic. Perhaps the bike he worked on sat in a crate in the harbor and the salt water rusted the bike out? Heck, who knows...but it seems unlikely for a new motorcycle.

He mentioned preload suspension. There is no preload on the rear suspension whatsoever. The suspension is definitely too soft, and thankfully there is a website offering a service to tighten them with an in-house tool that won't ruin the crown over the spring.

I do have to agree about parts availability. With the confusion between who's the real deal with CF Moto between Bargain Jim's and CF Moto USA, I share a similar opinion with the writer.

One thing I am surprised they did not mention was the fairing rattle issue with both the V3 and V5.

Another point, Bargain Jim's may be avertising that these are highway cruising, but the repair manual CLEARLY spells out for the rider never to take it on the highway. Why they're touting that is beyond me.

Beyond the fact that I actually own a bike by CF Moto, I found the article to be slightly biased. It was obviously set to the tune to piss all over the bike. There was not a single piece of positive evidence, which to me proves that the article was written with extreme prejudice. Surely, there must be something positive that the writer could have found with the bike.

edit- The article said="Ohio BMV Dealer laws clearly state that EVERY motorcycle sold in the State of Ohio must be test-ridden and inspected for safe operation"

That law is viable in most, if not all states. A distributer has a responsibility to do this for free before reselling. Thus, online dealers often evade these laws as they don't have a brick and mortar storefront and upcharge for assembly or "premium" service that they're technically required to do under law. As I understand it, Minnesota has the same law on the books. If so, Twin Cities Scooters/Bargain Jim's are in violation of the law by charging for a service that is required by law. Lev, any idea about this?

~d.fx

2004 Derbi Boulevard kitted 190cc
2006 CF Moto V3 250cc
http://www.myspace.com/danielfox


 
illnoise
Member since Feb-23-06
59 posts
Aug-03-06, 04:37 PM (EDT)
 
17. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #16
 
   I think by "rusty/ugly bits" he was just referring to engine parts, a little joke for scooter people not used to seeing their engine in person, not the specific state of the parts. The bike was so new, if there was rust on it, he would have made a bigger deal about it than that.


 
jacine
Member since Mar-24-06
132 posts
Aug-03-06, 05:49 PM (EDT)
 
19. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #16
 
   The only way I can figure out in tightening up the shocks is to use a collar on the springs. Something similar to a lowering kit. Does anyone know the length of the shocks (measured with no load) in mm. ?

Jacine
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/cfmoto


 
tronporn
Member since Jul-12-06
37 posts
Aug-03-06, 06:27 PM (EDT)
 
20. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #19
 
   >The only way I can figure out in tightening up the shocks is
>to use a collar on the springs. Something similar to a
>lowering kit. Does anyone know the length of the shocks
>(measured with no load) in mm. ?

Someone posted to the CF Moto list about sending in shocks for adjustment for 65 bucks. CBX or something, I believe.

I've considered it, as the rear absorbers are driving me nuts whenever I hit bumps. They're way too soft. However, I'd just as soon avoid it if I can figure out how to do it myself.


~d.fx

2004 Derbi Boulevard kitted 190cc
2006 CF Moto V3 250cc
http://www.myspace.com/danielfox


 
wombatWheeler
Member since Nov-26-05
240 posts
Aug-04-06, 08:04 PM (EDT)
 
28. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #20
 
  
>
>I've considered it, as the rear absorbers are driving me
>nuts whenever I hit bumps. They're way too soft. However,
>I'd just as soon avoid it if I can figure out how to do it
>myself.

Take the shocks off, remove the springs, and make a preload spacer from an appropriate diameter piece of PVC pipe. It's thick walled and easy to cut and plenty strong in compression. The length you make the spacer will make the rear end ride that much higher, and less likely to bottom out over bumps. (It will not actually make the suspension stiffer; for that you'd need a higher rate spring). Not having seen the shocks, I don't know exactly how they come apart. Most likely, one mount or the other will screw off after loosening a locknut. The spring is under tension but not that much in the extended position. If you have access to a drillpress, they make great spring compressors.

Barry


 
Corporal Mantis
Member since Sep-27-05
604 posts
Aug-05-06, 07:33 PM (EDT)
 
29. "RE: CF Moto Review"
In response to message #0
 
   I test rode the V3 today and was actually pretty impressed with it. Its a fun little bike.

Strada Scooter Blog
http://stradascooter.blogspot.com/


 

 

 


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