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Subject: "2 stroke vs 4 stroke /air vs liquid cooled" Archived thread - Read only
 
 
Conferences > International New Scooter BBS > Topic #3369
Reading Topic #3369

Caleb
unregistered user
Aug-31-05, 03:15 PM (EDT)
 
"2 stroke vs 4 stroke /air vs liquid cooled"
 
   What is the difference in a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke?
Air vs liquid coole?

I am looking at that TNG Venice and the Yamaha Vino, the Yamaha is only a couple hundred dollars over the TNG. Is it worth the extra 200? This is for the 49cc model.

Thanks


 

 
Bryce Ludwig
Member since Dec-21-03
4441 posts
Aug-31-05, 03:46 PM (EDT)
 
1. "RE: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke /air vs liquid cooled"
In response to message #0
 
   For info on 2 stroke and 4 stroke engines, read this.

Air cooling and liquid cooling mean just that. An air cooled engine uses air forced over parts of the engine to keep heat from pooling up there. Some air cooled engines do have oil cooling too. Meaning that the oil gets cooled down which removes some heat from the engine. Liquid cooling uses a fluid (typically water and anti-freeze) to cool the engine. It has a radiator to transfer the heat from the fluid to air.

Liquid cooled engines require a little more maintenance, but typically make more power, often have better fuel economy and are usually quieter than their air cooled counterparts. Air cooling is simple, meaning there should be less to go wrong.

- Bryce Ludwig


 
dandrewk
Member since Aug-16-05
64 posts
Aug-31-05, 04:04 PM (EDT)
 
2. "RE: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke /air vs liquid cooled"
In response to message #1
 
   All other things being equal - wouldn't liquid cooling be better than air cooling in stop and go traffic at keeping the engine from over-heating?

>For info on 2 stroke and 4 stroke engines, read
>this.
>
>Air cooling and liquid cooling mean just that. An air
>cooled engine uses air forced over parts of the engine to
>keep heat from pooling up there. Some air cooled engines do
>have oil cooling too. Meaning that the oil gets cooled down
>which removes some heat from the engine. Liquid cooling
>uses a fluid (typically water and anti-freeze) to cool the
>engine. It has a radiator to transfer the heat from the
>fluid to air.
>
>Liquid cooled engines require a little more maintenance, but
>typically make more power, often have better fuel economy
>and are usually quieter than their air cooled counterparts.
>Air cooling is simple, meaning there should be less to go
>wrong.

Dave

http://www.maxi-scoots.com


 
Bryce Ludwig
Member since Dec-21-03
4441 posts
Aug-31-05, 04:22 PM (EDT)
 
3. "RE: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke /air vs liquid cooled"
In response to message #2
 
   One would think so. I can't say I've ever had a problem with my air cooled scooter though, even in 100°F temperatures.

- Bryce Ludwig


 
JimC
unregistered user
Aug-31-05, 04:54 PM (EDT)
 
4. "RE: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke /air vs liquid cooled"
In response to message #2
 
   >All other things being equal - wouldn't liquid cooling be
>better than air cooling in stop and go traffic at keeping
>the engine from over-heating?

I think that it would depend on the way that the liquid is cooled. Here's what I mean. In an automobile, there is a radiator that not only catches the breeze while moving but has a fan to assist in the cooling process. My BMW is a combination of Oil and Air cooled. BUT if you are not moving with the engine running, you are not getting any cooling other than whatever breeze might be in the air. The effective cooling in that situation is way short. You have to be moving for there to be any effective cooling.

I have owned a motorcycle, BMW K75S, that had more like a car system with a radiator, fan and coolant. There is still a large element of moving air that kept the K bike from overheating.

Bottom line, I don't care whether the scoot is air cooled, liquid cooled, with or without a fan/radiator system. If I have to sit in bumper to bumper traffic, the scoot is getting shut down. I feel that they have to be moving to keep cool, it is just part of the equation. I don't believe that there is any manufacturer that would endorse sitting and running.

As far as which is better, I would have to defer to a mechanical/engineering expert. I'm sure that there are some air cooled engines that have sufficient cooling fins, fly wheel fans to keep them running forever, ala my stationary Honda powered generator. I also suspect that there are some liquid cooled engines that in the absence of air moving over the engine within a couple of minutes will seize up. So I quess my lame answere is ...............it depends. That was long winded.
Ciao
jim


 
Rod Built
unregistered user
Aug-31-05, 07:32 PM (EDT)
 
5. "RE: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke /air vs liquid cooled"
In response to message #4
 
   >Bottom line, I don't care whether the scoot is air cooled,
>liquid cooled, with or without a fan/radiator system. If I
>have to sit in bumper to bumper traffic, the scoot is
>getting shut down. I feel that they have to be moving to
>keep cool, it is just part of the equation.

Some small liquid cooled scooters, like the Honda Metropolitan and the new Yamaha Vino 50cc 4s, have their fan cooled radiators mounted on the side of the engine. Sitting still or top speed, about the same air flows through the tubes.

Rod


 
Bryce Ludwig
Member since Dec-21-03
4441 posts
Aug-31-05, 11:35 PM (EDT)
 
7. "RE: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke /air vs liquid cooled"
In response to message #4
 
   I don't know what kind of scooter you have, but most air cooled scooters I've seen have more in common with the cooling systems in air cooled VW engines than they do with most motorcycles. On a BMW boxer twin the engine comes out of the frame enough to catch some air. On my scooter, and on many others, there is shrouding that air is forced through by a fan that is constantly running when the engine is on. Doesn't mean they won't overheat, but they are cooled differently than your average air cooled motorcycle, which typically doesn't have much air flow without movement.

- Bryce Ludwig


 
Rod Built
unregistered user
Aug-31-05, 07:37 PM (EDT)
 
6. "RE: 2 stroke vs 4 stroke /air vs liquid cooled"
In response to message #0
 
   >Is it worth the extra 200?

TN'G markets a number of fine and keenly priced scooters, but I've never felt the small MSRP difference between their 50cc offering and Yamaha's made up for the house-hold name brand (resale), the far greater dealer network, the better warranty or the subtle fit-n-finish differences.

Just one guy's opinion,
Rod


 

 

 


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