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Subject: "Advice: New TNG Venice LX, OR used Honda Metropolitan?" Archived thread - Read only
 
 
Conferences > International New Scooter BBS > Topic #1743
Reading Topic #1743

MLScoot
unregistered user
Feb-19-05, 12:24 PM (EDT)
 
"Advice: New TNG Venice LX, OR used Honda Metropolitan?"
 
   Okay. I have a chance to buy a lightly used Honda Metropolitan OR a brand new TNG Venice LX -- either for about $1100. What would YOU do? Both are 49 cc, and I'll be a brand new scooterist. I like the look of both... Thoughts?


 

 
Aviator47
unregistered user
Feb-19-05, 02:57 PM (EDT)
 
1. "RE: Advice: New TNG Venice LX, OR used Honda Metropoli"
In response to message #0
 
   Go with the two-stroke. It will have more guts.

Al


 
MLScoot
Member since Feb-19-05
49 posts
Feb-19-05, 03:29 PM (EDT)
 
2. "RE: Advice: New TNG Venice LX, OR used Honda Metropoli"
In response to message #1
 
   >Go with the two-stroke. It will have more guts.
>
>Al


Thanks, Al... I'm a mechanically challenged grrrl -- the 2-stroke is the TNG Venice, correct? The dealer also told me that the advantage of the TNG would be that it could be modified later, which I guess the Honda can't.


 
Aviator47
unregistered user
Feb-19-05, 03:54 PM (EDT)
 
3. "RE: Advice: New TNG Venice LX, OR used Honda Metropoli"
In response to message #2
 
   Yes, there are performance kits for the Venice. For example:

<http://www.provoscooter.com/shop/default.php?cPath=30&osCsid=a30e5aedc7c0f1e57a0788ff4d6483f6>

I'm not sure the Honda 4 stroke 50cc has much available in this regard

Al


 
et4inmonterey
unregistered user
Feb-19-05, 04:06 PM (EDT)
 
4. "RE: Advice: New TNG Venice LX, OR used Honda Metropoli"
In response to message #1
 
   gotta agree with aviator, I had a yamaha Vino, pretty much exactly the same thing as the Venice.
It is streets ahead of the Metropolitan in regard to power and acceleration
and you can modify them into fire breathing giant killers if you so wish.
Don't think twice, it's not even a comparison, leave the Metro alone!
marc


 
MLScoot
Member since Feb-19-05
49 posts
Feb-19-05, 04:25 PM (EDT)
 
5. "RE: Advice: New TNG Venice LX, OR used Honda Metropoli"
In response to message #4
 
   Geez, thanks for your help, guys. And to think, I was feeling guilty about leaning toward the Venice! I thought everyone would tell me to go with the Metro because of Honda reliability, so this has been enlightening.


 
Bryce Ludwig
Member since Dec-21-03
4441 posts
Feb-19-05, 06:06 PM (EDT)
 
6. "Honda Reliability vs. Honda slowness"
In response to message #5
 
   LAST EDITED ON Feb-19-05 AT 06:10 PM (EDT)
 
The Metropolitan is really cool, but it's also slower than most other 50cc scooters. There are 4 stroke 50cc engines that are somewhat powerful, but they aren't available in the USA. Honda makes a 4 valve, fuel injected version of the motor in the Metro, but it's not sold here. The Metropolitan is also quite light, and it has a die cast aluminum frame. It's incredibly high tech, but it's not very tunable. There aren't any cylinder kits for it because the crank case and cylinder are one piece, like most automobile engines. This actually means that the engine is probably stronger, but it's not as easy to modify.

That said, the Honda scooters are considered to be really good, with few faults. I'd probably go with the TNG because it's going to be faster out of the box and easier to modify if you get the tuning bug.

- Bryce Ludwig


 
JTXYL
Member since Apr-29-04
58 posts
Feb-20-05, 07:59 PM (EDT)
 
7. "RE: Advice: New TNG Venice LX, OR used Honda Metropoli"
In response to message #0
 
   The Venice LX is a pretty sweet little bike. Had a chance to get a good look at one a couple weeks ago. Good suspension, disk brakes, upgradable engine. It has my vote over all of the currently available 50's.


- JT

"Steppin' large & laughin' easy since 1965."


 
MLScoot
Member since Feb-19-05
49 posts
Feb-21-05, 04:01 PM (EDT)
 
8. "RE: Advice: New TNG Venice LX, OR used Honda Metropoli"
In response to message #7
 
   This has been so interesting... everyone on scooterbbs (this message board) is telling me to go with the TNG Venice, but all my scooter friends in my hometown are telling me to go with the Honda Metropolitan! *sigh* I guess it's reliability (Honda Metro) vs. pep (TNG 2 stroke). The other thing is the fear that 2 strokes -- even 50cc -- will be outlawed in the USA in 2006. That would make the Venice an "orphan" that might be hard to get repaired, etc.


 
scatscoot
Member since Jun-12-03
54 posts
Feb-21-05, 04:12 PM (EDT)
 
9. "RE: Advice: New TNG Venice LX, OR used Honda Metropoli"
In response to message #8
 
   Greggscooter

No, dont fear for that, The existing 2 strokes will be grandfathered in,
there will be parts and service for all the major brands for many years to come. TNG is a major brand and it will be a lot more fun than the Metropolitan.

Gregg


 
Bryce Ludwig
Member since Dec-21-03
4441 posts
Feb-21-05, 11:13 PM (EDT)
 
22. "2 stroke legality"
In response to message #8
 
   There is nothing in 2006 that will outright ban *NEW* 2 stroke vehicles from being sold. If I were able to build a car that could meet or exceed all emissions standards and happened to be a 2 stroke, I would be more than free to do that. If I presently owned an old DKW or SAAB 2 stroke car, I could continue to own and run it.

What is going to happen? Emissions laws will get tougher, and 2 strokes will either clean up, or disappear. Honda is betting they will be gone. Yamaha and all the others have some powerful, yet small 4 strokes waiting in the wings. Why? It will probably be cheaper to make a clean, carbureted 4 stroke than it would be to make a clean, direct injected 2 stroke. That said, other parts of the world will still allow 2 strokes, and there will be parts available for TNGs for a long while.

- Bryce Ludwig


 
Rod Built
unregistered user
Feb-21-05, 05:13 PM (EDT)
 
10. "RE: Advice: New TNG Venice LX, OR used Honda Metropoli"
In response to message #0
 
   Your self description is "mechanically challenged grrl", you're looking for your first scooter, and you're being advised by scooter enthusiasts to buy a Chinese 50cc two stoke and modify it for more power. Hmmm.

Based on owners reports on the web, a stock Venice and Metropolitan have about the same GPS measured top speed. Despite the sincere, well meaning but ignorant advice you've been given here, either can be modified for more speed - but I wouldn't recomend it. If you want to go faster than either a stock Venice or Met will run, save up more money and buy a 125.

The TN'G is built in (AFAIK) a mystery factory in communist China. The Met is built in a Honda factory in Kumamoto, Japan. Honda has by far the largest motorcycle dealer network in the USA, and they offer a cheap roadside assistance plan.

In 1500 miles, I've changed the oil in my Met once, and put gas in it (95~107mpg). That's it. Other Met owners have over 10,000 miles and they, too, have just put gas in. I can wholeheartedly recomended the Honda to you.

Rod


 
Ellen
Member since Jan-7-04
1313 posts
Feb-21-05, 06:05 PM (EDT)
 
11. "RE: Advice: New TNG Venice LX, OR used Honda Metropoli"
In response to message #10
 
   I agree with Rod.

Especially since you aren't mechanically inclined, I would go with the Metropoilitan. In almost every town you will find a Honda dealer. They might thumb their noses if you come in with a scooter. But they will service them. The cute little scooter store which sells TNG might not always be around. Not sure if you want to do problem diagnostics via email and repairs by mail order.

Just make sure its a Metropolitan 1 which will get you 40 MPH. Not a Metropolitan 2 which will only max out at 25 mph.

Also, it's amazing how quiet the Metropolitan is. Unless you are one of the "loud pipes save lives" crowd, your neigbors will appreciate the 4 stroke. 2 strokes are much louder.


 
Dusty
Member since Jan-18-05
5 posts
Feb-21-05, 07:22 PM (EDT)
 
13. "In defense of TN'G"
In response to message #11
 
   CMSI is the manufacturer for TN'G. If you visit their site, you'll see that they are also the manufacturer for Lambretta USA. While the TN'Gs may be manufactured in a "mystery factory in communist China," they are certainly not being manufactured by a mystery company.


 
Rod Built
unregistered user
Feb-21-05, 09:50 PM (EDT)
 
15. "RE: In defense of TN'G"
In response to message #13
 
   CMSI is the class of Chinese scooters.

2005 marks >American Honda's 47th year of selling four stroke, 50cc machines in the USA.

Rod


 
rod is a plant for Honda
unregistered user
Feb-21-05, 10:27 PM (EDT)
 
17. "RE: In defense of TN'G"
In response to message #15
 
   hehehe.
sex it up baby.
the Metro is a dog.


 
Bryce Ludwig
Member since Dec-21-03
4441 posts
Feb-21-05, 11:16 PM (EDT)
 
23. "CMSI"
In response to message #15
 
   CMSI stands for Classic Motorcycle and Sidecar Incorporated. They buy Chinese built scooters that are built to their specifications. Yamaha does the same thing with the Vino. A company can get stuff made in China quite inexpensively, and quality control is totally up to that company. I have a feeling that the parts and bikes that are rejected by CMSI or Yamaha or any other reputable brand having bikes made in China end up going on home market bikes, some of which are illegally brought into this country.

- Bryce Ludwig


 
Rod Built
unregistered user
Feb-22-05, 12:27 PM (EDT)
 
33. "RE: CMSI"
In response to message #23
 
   >CMSI stands for Classic Motorcycle and Sidecar Incorporated.
> They buy Chinese built scooters that are built to their
>specifications. Yamaha does the same thing with the Vino.

Bryce,

The only Vinos that I've inspected had "Made in Japan" sickers inside their leg shields. This legally indicates their final assembly location ("point of last major transformation") for importation. You seem to be accusing Yamaha of fraud, i.e. claiming that Chinese scooters are actually built in Japan. Do you have any evidence to support your claim?

BTW - Business Week magazine said that over 50 Chinese factories had been caught building "Yamaha" products that the real Yamaha had nothing to do with.

Rod


 
Bryce Ludwig
Member since Dec-21-03
4441 posts
Feb-22-05, 01:51 PM (EDT)
 
34. "RE: CMSI"
In response to message #33
 
   A lot of Yamaha's parts are made in other places, even though final assembly may be in Japan. Do you think a North American market Honda Accord, which sees final assembly here, is entirely composed of parts made here?

- Bryce Ludwig


 
Rod Built
unregistered user
Feb-22-05, 07:18 PM (EDT)
 
38. "RE: CMSI"
In response to message #34
 
   I take it then that you would like to ammend your original statement from Yamaha buying entire, completed Chinese-built Vinos to now only claiming that Yamaha subcontracts some piece parts and subassemblies built to their specifications. Agreed.

Best,
Rod


 
Bryce Ludwig
Member since Dec-21-03
4441 posts
Feb-22-05, 09:58 PM (EDT)
 
41. "RE: CMSI"
In response to message #38
 
   Yes, I definitely amend my statement to that.

- Bryce Ludwig


 
benjamindavismurphy
unregistered user
Feb-21-05, 07:17 PM (EDT)
 
12. "RE: Advice: New TNG Venice LX, OR used Honda Metropoli"
In response to message #0
 
   i have a metropolitan and i love it. not very fast but very dependable and it gets me around town. i'd recommend the metropolitan, however i question the $1100 USED price tag.

i wouldn't pay that much for a used one unless it had next to no miles on it and was in top condition.


 
benjamindavismurphy
unregistered user
Feb-21-05, 07:26 PM (EDT)
 
14. "RE: Advice: New TNG Venice LX, OR used Honda Metropoli"
In response to message #12
 
   i'd also like to add that since i purchased my metro i've had three other friends decide to get one and they all love them. i know about 6 metro owners and the only complaint i've hear from any of them is "i wish it was faster", but that's what you get when you buy a 50cc engine. if you want fast buy something with a bigger engine.

but on the flip side of that arguement: the fact that it keeps you under 40 miles per hour also keeps you out of a lot of trouble. i've taken a spill at 30 mph on my metro and got up and walked it off. as for the honda, aside from a cracked panel, it was fine.

by the way the panel cost $107 to replace.


 
MLScoot
Member since Feb-19-05
49 posts
Feb-21-05, 10:15 PM (EDT)
 
16. "RE: Advice: New TNG Venice LX, OR used Honda Metropoli"
In response to message #14
 
   The Honda Metro fans have chimed in, at last!

Yes, I must say that I know several Metro owners personally, and they all seemed pleased. I don't know any TNG owners personally, so I don't have as much to go on there.

Looking around the web, it seems like a lot of scooter boards "bash" the Metro. I'm really puzzled by this, since "real live" scooterists that I know are so happy with their Metros... go figure.

I do appreciate everyone's input. Thanks!


 
gotta love the scooter boards
unregistered user
Feb-21-05, 10:33 PM (EDT)
 
18. "RE: Advice: New TNG Venice LX, OR used Honda Metropoli"
In response to message #16
 
   >>Looking around the web, it seems like a lot of scooter boards "bash" the Metro. I'm really puzzled by this, since "real live" scooterists that I know are so happy with their Metros... go figure.<<

If I bought a slow dangerous pig, I'd be telling everyone how great it is, because I'm not stupid, OK....
Now if I had an opinion as a non involved spectator, maybe my opinions would not be biased.....go figure.


 
Ellen
Member since Jan-7-04
1313 posts
Feb-21-05, 10:46 PM (EDT)
 
19. "RE: Advice: New TNG Venice LX, OR used Honda Metropoli"
In response to message #18
 
  
>If I bought a slow dangerous pig, I'd be telling everyone
>how great it is, because I'm not stupid, OK....
>Now if I had an opinion as a non involved spectator, maybe
>my opinions would not be biased.....go figure.


Mr. 67.113.189.90,
Let me guess. You're a TNG dealer?

Seems to be a lot of TNG pumping on this board.


 
Mr. 67.113.189.90,
unregistered user
Feb-21-05, 11:03 PM (EDT)
 
20. "RE: Advice: New TNG Venice LX, OR used Honda Metropoli"
In response to message #19
 
   No, not a dealer, you must be, as it seems to have touched a nerve!
I had a yamaha Vino and I constantly see a lot
of very dissapointed looking Metro riders around.
What is it with that, when you give someone a wave and they look away and down, not just once, not the same person, it always looks like shame to me.
and by the way the only scooter wreck I've ever seen in my town was a poor shmo on a Metro.
What's up with that?
I've seen the Metro up close and it gave me shivers, being a Vino rider, and eventually modifier, that I didn't end up with it, after all it is is cute.
p.s. I know how to hit the IP button too....ooooohhhhh.


 
MLScoot
Member since Feb-19-05
49 posts
Feb-21-05, 11:59 PM (EDT)
 
24. "RE: Here's a new one: How about the 4 stroke TNG Milan"
In response to message #19
 
   Just learned that I can get a very similar $$$ deal on a brand new TNG Milano. This is 4 stroke, but heavier than a Metro, so I'd say it must be slower? It looks like it would be better able to carry two people, if I ever have a passenger.

So... What say you, pro-TNG-Venice-people? Pro-4-stroke-Honda-Metro-people?


 
MLScoot
Member since Feb-19-05
49 posts
Feb-21-05, 11:09 PM (EDT)
 
21. "RE: Advice: New TNG Venice LX, OR used Honda Metropoli"
In response to message #18
 
   >If I bought a slow dangerous pig, I'd be telling everyone
>how great it is, because I'm not stupid, OK....
>Now if I had an opinion as a non involved spectator, maybe
>my opinions would not be biased.....go figure.

So, are you non-biased? Not a TNG dealer? Is that what you're telling me?

Quite honestly... I'm enjoying all the opinions and am glad I started this thread. However, I'm just as confused as I was when I started! One minute I'm leaning toward the TNG, the next minute toward the Honda.

Good points have been made about the Honda perhaps being a better bet for a mechanically challenged type like me. That is weighing heavily in my decision-making process.

On the other hand, I think I will have to see the price dip below the $1100. For the same price, the brand new TNG comes with a cover, a built in alarm system, a good lock, and a warranty (not the best warranty, but a warranty). The used Metro won't come with any of that, I'm sure.

Decisions, decisions!


 
MR I.P. pig boy
unregistered user
Feb-22-05, 00:54 AM (EDT)
 
25. "RE: Advice: New TNG Venice LX, OR used Honda Metropoli"
In response to message #21
 
   Really, I think at this stage you have to get on each scooter and take it for a ride.
In a 50cc (49cc) scooter you are going to feel much better performance with a two stroke, it's the nature of the beast.
So they have the same or similar top speeds (Metro and T'NG) but in traffic what counts is how quick it can get there, or more to the point, away from the damn Escalade breathing down your neck.
You'll be a sitting duck waiting for the four stroke to wind up to it's "same GPS measured top speed", and I don't think that is 'ignorant advice'.
Notice how acceleration to that 'top speed' is not mentioned.
Everyone is working on your 'mechanically challenged' quote also.
Truth be told a four stroke is going to need more maintenance than a two stroke, ie oil changes, valve clearance adjustment, things the two stroke doesn't need, and also these are all new technology machines so
mechanical aptitude is a non-issue, don't let 'service' sway you, isn't that nice, another reason to give more money to Honda, just feel free to pop into one of their convenient locations!
Now you are talking a 125, well, that's big enough for a four stroke to begin to be useful.
Again, take them all for a ride, $1100 isn't so much until you've spent it on something you wish you hadn't.
Take it from a consumer who's been there.


 
MLScoot
Member since Feb-19-05
49 posts
Feb-22-05, 01:01 AM (EDT)
 
26. "RE: Advice: New TNG Venice LX, OR used Honda Metropoli"
In response to message #25
 
   Yeah, thanks for the advice. The reason I haven't just jumped on 'em to try 'em is that I'm a COMPLETELY new scooterist, so I don't know what I'm doing. Frankly (and unfortunately), I don't think I could take them on meaningful test drives... more like scary learning drives. This will be a learner scooter for me, whichever one I buy.

I think that ALL of you who have given advice are actually being selfless... all kidding aside, dealers or not!, none of you is really going to gain by my decision one way or the other. So I consider your taking the time to give advice to be an act of kindness.

Thanks.


 
Aviator47
unregistered user
Feb-22-05, 01:09 AM (EDT)
 
27. "RE: Advice: New TNG Venice LX, OR used Honda Metropoli"
In response to message #26
 
   A "learning" drive in the parking lot is still a heck of a lot better than no test drive at all. Just see how the sccot feels.

I do agree with those who prefer 2 stroke over 4 in a 50cc scoot.

Whatever you decide.... we hope you enjoy scootin. It's the most fun you can have with your pants on!

Al


 
Rod Built
unregistered user
Feb-22-05, 12:12 PM (EDT)
 
32. "RE: Advice: New TNG Venice LX, OR used Honda Metropoli"
In response to message #25
 
   >Truth be told a four stroke is going to need more
>maintenance than a two stroke, ie oil changes, valve
>clearance adjustment

The Metro calls for valve clearance inspection every 15,000 miles.

Rod


 
benjamindavismurphy
unregistered user
Feb-22-05, 03:02 AM (EDT)
 
28. "man, talk about unleashing wwIII"
In response to message #0
 
   all i know is i like my metro and like i said before so do all of my friends who own them. we all use them for scootin' around town. to and from work, the grocery store, getting around the neighborhood. again the only complaint i have heard from any of my friends who own the metropolitan is "i wish it was a little faster".

i tend to be more adventurous on my little honda than most other metro owners i know, so it's no mystery i'm itching for more power and speed. but for my first scooter i think the metro was a good and pretty inexpensive start. it should be noted that i have been planning on getting a vespa pretty much since the purchase of my honda. i just wanted to get an affordable NEW scooter to start on. i was primarily conscerned with reliability and price when i got my first scooter. several of my hardcore vespa-nerd friends suggested the honda actually.

but all that being said i am planning on getting a new vespa at the end of the year. now that i feel comfortable scooting in general i'm feeling the "need to speed" or more power. i'm thinking 150cc or better. i'm looking into the new PX150 and the ET4, but the possibility of getting my hands on a imported PX200 sounds awful promising too!


 
MLScoot
Member since Feb-19-05
49 posts
Feb-22-05, 09:04 AM (EDT)
 
29. "RE: man, talk about unleashing wwIII"
In response to message #28
 
   Yes, it seems like the mention of "Honda Metro" sparks wars on scooter boards. It's an interesting phenomenon. I don't completely understand the strong anti-Metro feelings that seem to exist here. I mean, okay, it sounds like the little bugger is slow. (It's a 49cc scooter -- it's "supposed" to be slow, you know?) I guess some of it is really anti-Honda stuff. Some of it is anti-4-stroke stuff. But personally, from what I've read, it sounds like a great (if slowish) scooter -- whether I end up choosing it or not.


 
Ellen
Member since Jan-7-04
1313 posts
Feb-22-05, 10:00 AM (EDT)
 
30. "RE: man, talk about unleashing wwIII"
In response to message #29
 
   You're doing your home work. Good for you!
Many people will run out and buy the first scooter they see at their local Pep Boys. Then realize they are stuck with "a slow dangerous pig". 25 MPH max, constantly having to replace parts, etc.

This board does seem to have a bias against the Metro. (I'm wondering if people don't realize there are 2 versions. The restricted and unrestricted). But hell, on the International board, just the mention of a twist and go scooter causes an uproar. And God forbid you ask about a scooter made in mainland China!

Venice and the Metropolitan 1 just have a few differences.

The Honda being a 4 stroke has advantages and disadvantages. A bit slower off the line, but maxium speed about the same. But then again, you won't have to check the oil everytime you gas it up. It does have a much larger dealer network standing behind it. 20 year old Honda's are still on the road and running strong. theres a reason for that.

The Venice, being a 2 stroke, you will have to keep checking the oil and keep topping it off. It does have aftermarket acessories and can be kitted to go faster. However, unless you are willing to do the work yourself, why bother getting a 50CC. If you are planning on upgrading it, might as well just spend the money now and look for a used 125 or 150cc.

Not to make your head exploded or anything
50CC scooter is pretty much entry level. People start out with them and in a year or 2 end up upgrading to a larger engine. Resale value is something you can think about too!.


Ellen



 
tobes
Member since Jan-24-05
12 posts
Feb-22-05, 11:31 AM (EDT)
 
31. "RE: man, talk about unleashing wwIII"
In response to message #30
 
   Personally I had to make this same decision not too long ago. I choose the Venice LX over the Venice, Milano, Vino, and Metro. I liked the LX beacuse it retained the style of the above, while offering many more features. The LX has Disc brakes for example, and has a larger seat with a place for passengers feet. It also has a halogen light like your car, which is much brighter. For the little I have driven my scooter in the month I have owned it, about 2 miles, it was alot better then other scooters I have driven. Dont even consider the top speed, consider driveability, the Venice/Venice LX are much better suited for stop and go situations, they just have better acceleration. The Disc brake also makes for much smoother faster stops.

I originally wanted a Metro, but was taken back when the honda dealer told me that I should buy the Yamaha. They said they had more returned of the Honda's then anything else they sold. I dont doubt the reliability of the scooter, I am sure it is very good. I do know that TNG is ever-expanding and they have a very good parts network. As for serviceability remember you dont have to go to a dealer it will be much easier to find a small-engine repair shop that will work on a 2 stroke then a 4 stroke.

Thats just my personal experiance. I chose the Venice LX finally beacuse they had a $600 off promotion in the winter months and that made it a much better buy then Yamaha or Honda.


 
jim
unregistered user
Feb-22-05, 04:52 PM (EDT)
 
37. "RE: man, talk about unleashing wwIII"
In response to message #30
 
   I bought a Vino (which is mechanically similar to the TNG Venice) over the Metro because I liked the Vino design better. The Honda's also a nice bike and seems well made.

I had no intention of ever doing anything more involved than putting in gas and oil. But as I rode the Vino more and made the acquaintance of other scooterists, interest in working on my bike grew. I've replaced plugs, had the CVT cover off more than a few times (to derestrict, polish, install a Kevlar belt, etc), have taken off (and derestricted) the exhaust, and have performed other appearance and performance enhancing tasks. I get an honest 41 mph from it derestricted (thanks to higher profile 10x3 Continental tires), which is fine for my purposes.

The point to all this is: Never say never. I might upgrade my Vino; I might not. Howeverm the main consideration is, that I have many upgrade options at my disposal--something I could NOT have, had I bought the Metro. I think it's dismissive to the point of arrogance to say that people who want a faster 50 should just get a 125.

Scootering to some is a lifestyle; to other's it's a hobby. A two-stroke, IMO, seems better suited to the scootering hobbyist. I also have a Vespa 150 Super that I'm trying to get past the 55 mph barrier. Should I just junk it and get a P-series or a motorcycle? Of course not.

Different two-strokes for ...


 
Rod Built
unregistered user
Feb-22-05, 07:36 PM (EDT)
 
39. "RE: man, talk about unleashing wwIII"
In response to message #37
 
   >The point to all this is: Never say never. I might upgrade
>my Vino; I might not. Howeverm the main consideration is,
>that I have many upgrade options at my disposal--something I
>could NOT have, had I bought the Metro. I think it's
>dismissive to the point of arrogance to say that people who
>want a faster 50 should just get a 125.

...and it's wrong to say there are no upgrades for the Metropolitan. Exhausts, cams, CDI boxes, intakes, variators, head work, fuel injection, nitrous, tires (like the Vino upgrade you've done) - yes, even displacement increase options are all available for anybody who want to go that route. This information has been posted here a dozen times - it's begining to strain belief that those claiming there are no upgrades for the Met are really ignorant of the facts.

BTW: there's a $10 mod to make a Met accelerate faster. Hint: it doesn't involve removing strokes from the engine - ROFL!

Rod


 
Bryce Ludwig
Member since Dec-21-03
4441 posts
Feb-22-05, 10:18 PM (EDT)
 
43. "Battlescooter"
In response to message #39
 
   You pointed me to Battle Scooter for upgrades, which is a great suggestion. Their website seems to have gone through some improvements and seems to really say what kind of parts they are offering.

You also said that the Dio 4 valve engine and front suspension can be used on the Metropolitan. It's pretty impressive, and modification doesn't seem to be a problem, but it's a little more underground than the 2 stroke 50cc bikes.

What's the $10 modification to make the Met accelerate faster?

- Bryce Ludwig


 
Rod Built
unregistered user
Feb-23-05, 01:52 PM (EDT)
 
45. "RE: Battlescooter"
In response to message #43
 
   The 50cc category is the #1 sales class in Japan, and Honda is #1 in 50cc'ers in Japan. That explains a lot about why the Scoopy/Metropolitan/Jazz and Zoomer/Ruckus comes from the factory the way it does - Honda no doubt conducted home market consumer polls ad infinitum to tailor the little scoot to Japanese preferences.

The Met's variator is weighted pretty heavy. This gives very smooth, gentle - and slow! - acceleration. What do you expect - they advertise these things in Japan as "Clean 4: Low Environmental Impact, Tough, Silent, and Economical". They at least have the cultural awareness that the Japanese ad campaign wouldn't sell in the USA, but I wish they'd tweeked the Met mechanically for American riders.

Lightening the rollers in the variator of a twist-and-go will usually improve acceleration at the expense of top speed, but the Met is really overweighted, and hot rodding US riders have found that replacing three (out of six, every other one) of the stock 7.5gm weights with 6gm units will improve pickup without affecting top end.

Now that the Zoomer is on sale in Europe, I'm looking forward to cross-polinating with those scooterists on developing the Honda 50cc four stroke.

Scoot safe,
Rod


 
Bryce Ludwig
Member since Dec-21-03
4441 posts
Feb-22-05, 01:58 PM (EDT)
 
35. "RE: man, talk about unleashing wwIII"
In response to message #29
 
   >Yes, it seems like the mention of "Honda Metro" sparks wars
>on scooter boards. It's an interesting phenomenon. I don't
>completely understand the strong anti-Metro feelings that
>seem to exist here. I mean, okay, it sounds like the little
>bugger is slow. (It's a 49cc scooter -- it's "supposed" to
>be slow, you know?) I guess some of it is really anti-Honda
>stuff. Some of it is anti-4-stroke stuff. But personally,
>from what I've read, it sounds like a great (if slowish)
>scooter -- whether I end up choosing it or not.

I love the Metropolitan, and if it could accelerate like a 2 stroke 50cc, I would whole heartedly recommend it. I'm also hesitant to recommend 50cc scooters that are mega difficult to modify. Why? Because from my experience, not a lot of people leave their 50cc entirely stock. They often get a variator upgrade, or change the weights in the stock variator, and often get a pipe and change the carburetor jetting. Now, I know people who are mechanically disinclined, and they just have their shop do it, but it seems that it gets done at some point.

I basically recommend riding both of them, in a parking lot or wherever you're allowed to. Whichever model you choose, I would avoid a restricted model, particularly with the Honda. With a 2 stroke scooter it's possible to derestrict it, on Metropolitans the restricted model isn't really something you can derestrict, without changing the variator, the ignition system, and probably some other items too.

Having said all of this, I like the look of the Metropolitan better, and it seems to be better made than the TNG Venice, or even the Yamaha Vino.

- Bryce Ludwig


 
MLScoot
Member since Feb-19-05
49 posts
Feb-22-05, 02:49 PM (EDT)
 
36. "RE: man, talk about unleashing wwIII"
In response to message #35
 
   Yeah. I'm starting to think that the Venice LX would be very appealing, but I'm less impressed by the Venice. The thing is, the LX is significantly more $$$ than the Metro. The $1100 is for the Venice... the LX is $1600. So that makes me lean - at this moment - toward the Metro.


 
Rod Built
unregistered user
Feb-22-05, 07:46 PM (EDT)
 
40. "RE: man, talk about unleashing wwIII"
In response to message #35
 
   > on Metropolitans the restricted model isn't really
>something you can derestrict, without changing the variator,
>the ignition system, and probably some other items too.

You can derestrict a Metropolitan II for under $50, if you're handy with tools. It's not very hard to do.

Rod


 
Bryce Ludwig
Member since Dec-21-03
4441 posts
Feb-22-05, 10:00 PM (EDT)
 
42. "RE: man, talk about unleashing wwIII"
In response to message #40
 
   Don't you have to use a grinder to alter the ramps? We're talking about a person who said she wasn't mechanically inclined. That's a lot more difficult for somebody not-mechanically inclined than switching a variator, or variator weights.

- Bryce Ludwig


 
VishnuK
Member since Oct-27-04
102 posts
Feb-22-05, 10:51 PM (EDT)
 
44. "RE: man, talk about unleashing wwIII"
In response to message #42
 
   LAST EDITED ON Feb-22-05 AT 10:59 PM (EDT)
 
50 mph metro isn't hard to do. With a new CDI, opened up intake and rejetted carb. The 4.5hp motor will start getting 6+hp good for over 40mph (you'll get there a lot faster too). To get to this point you'll have spent 140 us$. To get a truly speedy metro, you can purchase a custom cam for 170 us$. Couple the fore-mentioned speed goodies with engine porting and valve work you'll end up with a satan's fury metro wheelie machine for somewhere around 500us$. Or, just buy a used CH150 engine off an old Elite 150 and drop it in the metro. I know it can be done easily enough for the Ruckus, which possesses the same engine as the metro, so it should be doable on the piglet. The guy that runs http://www.battlescooterstore.com, Abe, did this before tinkering with the stock motor. Here's a couple pics of his scoot with the elite motor in it.

Check out his other non-commercial site for more pics and info on how to mod the ruckus and metro. http://www.battlescooter.com

Sorry, I forgot to mention don't buy either the milano nor the metropolitan. Get one of these:


 
Rod Built
unregistered user
Feb-23-05, 02:17 PM (EDT)
 
46. "RE: man, talk about unleashing wwIII"
In response to message #44
 
   I wouldn't recomend buying a Met II and derestricting it unless you could get the MetII really cheap or your jurisdiction has really sweet moped (restricted scooter) provisions - but I don't think MLScoot was going to derestrict a two stroke herself, either, so no red herings, OK?

Cost effective Met II derestriction:

Remove the carb restrictor plate.
Replace the MetII carb diaphram spring with the Met part.
Replace the MetII variable drive face with the Met part.
Sand variator bushing down about 1/16", to 35mm.
Use premium gas ~if~ the engine knocks.

Rod


 
MLScoot
Member since Feb-19-05
49 posts
Feb-24-05, 00:42 AM (EDT)
 
47. "RE: man, talk about unleashing wwIII"
In response to message #44
 
   >Sorry, I forgot to mention don't buy either the milano nor
>the metropolitan. Get one of these:
>

Is that a Derbi Red Bullett? Or what? How much does it cost? Tell me more...


 
VishnuK
Member since Oct-27-04
102 posts
Feb-24-05, 01:19 AM (EDT)
 
48. "RE: man, talk about unleashing wwIII"
In response to message #47
 
   Derbi GP1. My local shop had one for 2600 us$.


 
newbie
unregistered user
Feb-25-05, 05:04 PM (EDT)
 
49. "RE: man, talk about unleashing wwIII"
In response to message #48
 
   I also am new at Scooters. I bought a Venice. I did not get the LX. I figured that I am a new rider, I do not need a passenger. Also as a newbie, I need to get use to the speed I have before adding to my scooter to make it go faster. I will get another scooter in a year when I am use to riding. Right now, I am addicted. I love my Venice. It is a guy magnet. There are days I say I am not going to ride it. But if it happens to get in eyeview, I have to ride......


 
MLScoot
Member since Feb-19-05
49 posts
Feb-25-05, 07:18 PM (EDT)
 
50. "RE: man, talk about unleashing wwIII"
In response to message #49
 
   Good for you! I think the Venice is a very nice -- and VERY cute -- scooter. I'm glad you're loving it!


 
zx9rider
Member since Aug-19-04
14 posts
Apr-16-05, 02:29 AM (EDT)
 
51. "RE: man, talk about unleashing wwIII"
In response to message #50
 
   LAST EDITED ON Apr-16-05 AT 02:31 AM (EDT)
 
A Derbi GP1 is a great european scooter. It has a comfy seat and nice guages. The Piaggio motor is excellent and reliable. The stock bike will run about 50mph with a 15 min derestriction to the exhaust pipe at your nearest muffler shop. It has 13 inch front and rear wheels. It also has disk brakes on front and rear for unbelievable stopping power. If you want to kit the bike, it will run 65 mph. Mine ran 65 mph and I am 200 lbs. My speed was measured using my GPS. The kitted Derbi will wheelie off the line too. The down side to the Derbi is that the bike is a little pricey. But if you watch ebay, you can get 'em for $1500 to $2000 (2002 or 2003 models). I paid $2k for mine brand new. Kitting it to run 65 with the Metrakit SP will run about $800 for parts and about $350 labor. For a new rider, the stock GP1 is plenty fast in city traffic and you dont have to worry about people tailgating you cuz you're too slow. Plus, you'll have a ball passing your friends on the Metros, Vinos, and Zumas. Another great scoot is the Aprilia SR50, but they are a bilt hard to find and can be a little pricey too.


 

 

 


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