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Subject: "LML article"
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Archived thread - Read only
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Ilegal Y Que
Member since Oct-5-05
350 posts |
Dec-27-06, 01:11 PM (EDT) |
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"LML article"
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Mad Kossack
Member since Aug-16-05
183 posts |
Dec-27-06, 01:35 PM (EDT) |
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1. "RE: LML article"
In response to message #0
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wow, that's potentially really good news. if bajaj is subcontracting production of 3-wheelers, that should give them a guaranteed income to get the scooter end of things back in shape. i hope it works out. |
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uncletoasty
Member since Aug-14-05
86 posts |
Dec-27-06, 04:57 PM (EDT) |
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2. "RE: LML article"
In response to message #1
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do you think they will keep the quality up? i was under the impresion that genuine made sure shit was squared away before they ordered the bikes. two stroke smoke gets you high!!! |
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illnoise
Member since Feb-23-06
59 posts |
Dec-27-06, 07:22 PM (EDT) |
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3. "RE: LML article"
In response to message #2
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From what I've heard, Genuine had standing orders that weren't fulfilled, and LML had many bikes pretty much ready to go that have been sitting on the factory floor all this time, and other bikes in various states of assembly. It's not like they'll have to start from scratch, they just need to get supplies coming again, and get the machinery and the employees ready to go back to work. The question has always been how they were going to get the workers to come back and maintain quality without giving them their nine months (or whatever) of pay that they were owed. That article doesn't address that, or how or where they got the cash they needed, but I guess they worked something out. I would have bet against it, but I'm glad to see them back. Hopefully Genuine will do some QC to see if the first couple batches are OK (since they've been sitting around half-finished and they were assembled by presumably angry workers) but once they're back in full-swing, I'm sure it'll be as good as ever (however good *that* was, ha). With the Vespa PX150 and Bajaj Chetak gone, they have a bigger international market now than ever, that was the lameness of all this, they were thrown a huge bone by Bajaj and Piaggio, and the lockout happened at the worst possible time. |
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cphilip
Member since Jul-16-03
7408 posts |
Dec-27-06, 07:51 PM (EDT) |
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4. "RE: LML article"
In response to message #1
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>wow, that's potentially really good news. if bajaj is
>subcontracting production of 3-wheelers, that should give
>them a guaranteed income to get the scooter end of things
>back in shape. i hope it works out. I think thats jumping to a conclusion. I do not see that Bajaj is subcontracting to them anything. Sounds like they are making them on their own based on tooling they have from back in the mid 90's to me. Otherwise why mention that previous model? Hense the comment no one would go it with them and they are going on their own. It would seem to me that it would read that Bajaj WAS contracting with them if that were so. Sounds like they plan on trying to make things out of what they have already on hand themselves. I also don't read into this that the Genuine Stella model is one of them. One might assume it could be. But that would be a leap of faith. It may indeed not even be the market they are talking about. The market numbers they quote are far above what Genuine would have ordered alone. But... I suppose its possible that somewhere in that number is some Genuine Stella's. But certainly not 10 thousand of them. There is way too much unsaid in that article to assume that they are working with Bajaj or Genuine. In fact there is a lot scary about the fact that they could find no one to business partner with them at all. |
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Brooke
Member since Jun-3-02
2807 posts |
Dec-27-06, 10:28 PM (EDT) |
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5. "RE: LML article"
In response to message #4
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that figure must have been a misprint. They don't make 10,000 vespas per month. I could see a 10,000 scooter order from genuine if it was delivered over a 2 year period. The question is: If LML starts to make them again does Genuine want them? I'd assume yes but what will the costs be and will it pass increasingly stringent emissions standards. I definately see many more Buddy's around town than stellas. |
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cphilip
Member since Jul-16-03
7408 posts |
Dec-27-06, 11:37 PM (EDT) |
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6. "RE: LML article"
In response to message #5
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Might not be a misprint if your talking some cheap model destined for a large market. I don't have any idea where that would be. Perhaps some oil rich mid Eastern country? What do we know about Genuines actual numbers? I would have guessed less than 1,000 a year or perhaps as many as 2,000. If that many. I don't think they even mean USA when they are talking about export of these. I bet they cheap models out of parts on hand destined for one area.
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rock
Member since Dec-26-05
13 posts |
Dec-28-06, 03:44 AM (EDT) |
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9. "RE: LML article"
In response to message #5
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no coast
Member since Sep-14-06
108 posts |
Dec-28-06, 01:39 AM (EDT) |
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7. "RE: LML article"
In response to message #4
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>>wow, that's potentially really good news. if bajaj is
>>subcontracting production of 3-wheelers, that should give
>>them a guaranteed income to get the scooter end of things
>>back in shape. i hope it works out.
>
>I think thats jumping to a conclusion. I do not see that
>Bajaj is subcontracting to them anything. Sounds like they
>are making them on their own based on tooling they have from
>back in the mid 90's to me. Otherwise why mention that
>previous model? Hense the comment no one would go it with
>them and they are going on their own. It would seem to me
>that it would read that Bajaj WAS contracting with them if
>that were so. Sounds like they plan on trying to make things
>out of what they have already on hand themselves.
>
>I also don't read into this that the Genuine Stella model is
>one of them. One might assume it could be. But that would be
>a leap of faith. It may indeed not even be the market they
>are talking about. The market numbers they quote are far
>above what Genuine would have ordered alone. But... I
>suppose its possible that somewhere in that number is some
>Genuine Stella's. But certainly not 10 thousand of them.
>
>There is way too much unsaid in that article to assume that
>they are working with Bajaj or Genuine. In fact there is a
>lot scary about the fact that they could find no one to
>business partner with them at all. Phil, I disagree. The article says that LML plans on making the NV model. That is what the Stella (US), BellaDonna (NZ), and Star (UK) models are based off of. So one could make the conclusion, why LML would make an export only model and not export it to the places that has the biggest desire. The LML plant was making 40,000 scooters a month in full swing, and by the time of there closing only making 10,000. I agree the article does leave a lot to the imgination, and LML (and the whole Indian market for that matter) talks a lot more then actual doing, but we can still hope. The biggest problem I see is the whole EPA deal. 2008 is D-day. I bet we will see a small batch of 2007 2strokes, followed by 2008 4 stroke ( something like Bajaj?).
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illnoise
Member since Feb-23-06
59 posts |
Dec-28-06, 01:58 AM (EDT) |
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8. "RE: LML article"
In response to message #7
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>The biggest problem I see is the whole EPA deal. 2008 is
>D-day. I bet we will see a small batch of 2007 2strokes,
>followed by 2008 4 stroke ( something like Bajaj?). That is an issue, but I've been hearing "X-is-the-end-of-two-strokes" since 1995 and they're still coming. Brooke is supposed to be doing research into the actual laws and the future of 2-strokes : ) It seems like whatever laws have changed to date, Genuine and other semi-small-time importers have found ways around them. We'll see, I guess. As far as whether or not we'll see more stellas, I have no doubt Genuine would be happy to get more if this all works out, and they may be one of the larger (or at least most vocal) distributors, so I really doubt they're not expecting more. As noted above, the real question is whether LML will actually follow through on this promise. And the other question, of course, is "where did they get enough money to get their employees back to work?" Gotta love that Indian business press, always digging deep for the real story. Bb. |
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BingBang
Member since Feb-26-04
1353 posts |
Dec-28-06, 11:08 AM (EDT) |
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10. "RE: LML article"
In response to message #8
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In the tradition of the BBS, I know very little about any of this, therefore I am going to go ahead and post. I recall someone telling me years ago that japan was exporting pick up without the bed installed to get around some laws or taxes. The beds would be installed after they were in the US. I wonder if LML could import 2 stroke engines and also "Vintage Scooter Kits" where you needed to install an engine. Just a thought. |
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12ci
Member since Jul-19-06
206 posts |
Dec-28-06, 12:17 PM (EDT) |
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12. "RE: LML article"
In response to message #10
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>
> LML could import 2 stroke engines and also
>"Vintage Scooter Kits" where you needed to install an
>engine.
this is also one of the methods used to import low-volume cars like Caterhams.
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12ci
Member since Jul-19-06
206 posts |
Dec-28-06, 12:15 PM (EDT) |
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11. "RE: LML article"
In response to message #8
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> importers have found ways around
>them. or rather, found ways to be comply with the regulations.... |
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no coast
Member since Sep-14-06
108 posts |
Dec-28-06, 02:15 PM (EDT) |
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13. "RE: LML article"
In response to message #11
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sjalex
Member since Mar-14-05
828 posts |
Dec-28-06, 04:54 PM (EDT) |
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15. "RE: LML article"
In response to message #13
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Yeah, it reveals that RK Srivastava doesn't want to talk about it. 
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sjalex
Member since Mar-14-05
828 posts |
Dec-28-06, 04:51 PM (EDT) |
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14. "RE: LML article"
In response to message #11
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or rather, found vulnerabilities in the regulations and exploited them... |
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cphilip
Member since Jul-16-03
7408 posts |
Dec-28-06, 08:41 PM (EDT) |
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16. "RE: LML article"
In response to message #7
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>
>Phil, I disagree. The article says that LML plans on making
>the NV model. That is what the Stella (US), BellaDonna (NZ),
>and Star (UK) models are based off of. So one could make the
>conclusion, why LML would make an export only model and not
>export it to the places that has the biggest desire. The LML
>plant was making 40,000 scooters a month in full swing, and
>by the time of there closing only making 10,000.
>
>I agree the article does leave a lot to the imgination, and
>LML (and the whole Indian market for that matter) talks a
>lot more then actual doing, but we can still hope.
>
>The biggest problem I see is the whole EPA deal. 2008 is
>D-day. I bet we will see a small batch of 2007 2strokes,
>followed by 2008 4 stroke ( something like Bajaj?)Those are some excellent counter points. Although I have to doubt that the US is "the biggest desire". However I could be wrong. I would believe the UK before ours. Hopefully some of both. But if so then perhaps 2000 or so of those could be USA bound?
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no coast
Member since Sep-14-06
108 posts |
Dec-28-06, 08:56 PM (EDT) |
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17. "RE: LML article"
In response to message #16
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>
>>
>>Phil, I disagree. The article says that LML plans on making
>>the NV model. That is what the Stella (US), BellaDonna (NZ),
>>and Star (UK) models are based off of. So one could make the
>>conclusion, why LML would make an export only model and not
>>export it to the places that has the biggest desire. The LML
>>plant was making 40,000 scooters a month in full swing, and
>>by the time of there closing only making 10,000.
>>
>>I agree the article does leave a lot to the imgination, and
>>LML (and the whole Indian market for that matter) talks a
>>lot more then actual doing, but we can still hope.
>>
>>The biggest problem I see is the whole EPA deal. 2008 is
>>D-day. I bet we will see a small batch of 2007 2strokes,
>>followed by 2008 4 stroke ( something like Bajaj?)
>
>Those are some excellent counter points. Although I have to
>doubt that the US is "the biggest desire". However I could
>be wrong. I would believe the UK before ours. Hopefully some
>of both. But if so then perhaps 2000 or so of those could be
>USA bound? I'm sorry I should have made my point a little more clear. I just think the LML model scoot is most popular in the US, UK, and NZ becasue of the Stella,Star,and Bella. Of course I have no numbers to back that up. But all the numbers add up, LML NV+ only scoot they want to make right now+export only+orders from Genuine and others waiting to be filled=Stella will be back in some shape or form ( Might be wishful thinking) The BIFR sounds like some kind of bankrupcy deal. Maybe LML won't ever pay their workers back or maybe over time. Either way as long as LML gets back in the scooter business, thats good for everyone. Again, I have to remember this is an Indian company, and they love to talk. So I will wait 3 months and see. |
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